Flashback: Bill Gates Slams Unreliable Wind and Solar Energy

First of all bill ░░░░░░░░ you need no interruption ░░░░░░░░ still am going to ░░░░░░░░ you and I m ░░░░░░░░ m gonna introduce you ░░░░░░░░ a Stanford dad welcome ░░░░░░░░ let me first say ░░░░░░░░ first encounter with you ░░░░░░░░ when I was in ░░░░░░░░ months as a first ░░░░░░░░ of arpa e and ░░░░░░░░ had arranged meeting with ░░░░░░░░ in your office and ░░░░░░░░ went out there and ░░░░░░░░ were a few minutes ░░░░░░░░ which he walked in ░░░░░░░░ a document and I ░░░░░░░░ that was my congressional ░░░░░░░░ and I said shoot ░░░░░░░░ m gonna be grilled ░░░░░░░░ you did you did ░░░░░░░░ me nicely but then ░░░░░░░░ think I told you ░░░░░░░░ I think bill I ░░░░░░░░ you re the only ░░░░░░░░ who s actually read ░░░░░░░░ testimony but I just ░░░░░░░░ to take this opportunity ░░░░░░░░ at that time I ░░░░░░░░ you that I need ░░░░░░░░ from you because we ░░░░░░░░ starting off ARPA he ░░░░░░░░ I had never been ░░░░░░░░ Washington and I need ░░░░░░░░ the help I could ░░░░░░░░ and and I just ░░░░░░░░ to take this opportunity ░░░░░░░░ thank you for your ░░░░░░░░ for RPE whenever eyes ░░░░░░░░ meet you used to ░░░░░░░░ me how can increase ░░░░░░░░ budget and that was ░░░░░░░░ tough question me because ░░░░░░░░ have to say that ░░░░░░░░ the President s budget ░░░░░░░░ you did your magic ░░░░░░░░ the hill I don ░░░░░░░░ know what you did ░░░░░░░░ RPE survived because of ░░░░░░░░ thank you so much ░░░░░░░░ let me start by ░░░░░░░░ a few things you ░░░░░░░░ one of the founding ░░░░░░░░ of the computing industry ░░░░░░░░ democratized computing and you ░░░░░░░░ billions of people and ░░░░░░░░ those people who you ░░░░░░░░ not touch with computing ░░░░░░░░ and melinda have touched ░░░░░░░░ your incredible work on ░░░░░░░░ health and for which ░░░░░░░░ I ll just put ░░░░░░░░ out there I hope ░░░░░░░░ know you re not ░░░░░░░░ for it I hope ░░░░░░░░ get a Nobel Peace ░░░░░░░░ at some point thank ░░░░░░░░ so given all that ░░░░░░░░ re pretty much with ░░░░░░░░ work your legacy you ░░░░░░░░ touched pretty much all ░░░░░░░░ humanity almost so how ░░░░░░░░ you get interested in ░░░░░░░░ well how can you ░░░░░░░░ be interested in energy ░░░░░░░░ mean civilization as Vaclav ░░░░░░░░ who s the best ░░░░░░░░ about energy says actually ░░░░░░░░ latest book I think ░░░░░░░░ s his 42nd is ░░░░░░░░ titled energy and civilization ░░░░░░░░ I recommend all 42 ░░░░░░░░ them but this one ░░░░░░░░ you don t have ░░░░░░░░ to catch up just ░░░░░░░░ this one that it ░░░░░░░░ covers a lot you ░░░░░░░░ the intensification of energy ░░░░░░░░ is how we ve ░░░░░░░░ a sort of subsistence ░░░░░░░░ existence the Industrial Revolution ░░░░░░░░ about energy primarily coal ░░░░░░░░ that stage and when ░░░░░░░░ put my foundation hat ░░░░░░░░ and look at ok ░░░░░░░░ needs to be done ░░░░░░░░ Africa poor countries in ░░░░░░░░ but particularly Africa the ░░░░░░░░ of electricity per person ░░░░░░░░ gone down in Africa ░░░░░░░░ the last 20 years ░░░░░░░░ there s no way ░░░░░░░░ can build there s ░░░░░░░░ upper bound on what ░░░░░░░░ can do with an ░░░░░░░░ unless you get infrastructure ░░░░░░░░ roads and electricity up ░░░░░░░░ a certain level so ░░░░░░░░ s a huge concern ░░░░░░░░ all these developmental goals ░░░░░░░░ have are unachievable unless ░░░░░░░░ get energy available there ░░░░░░░░ then you combine that ░░░░░░░░ the fact that the ░░░░░░░░ who are the most ░░░░░░░░ to suffer from the ░░░░░░░░ in warming that is ░░░░░░░░ and from the additional ░░░░░░░░ that is avoidable that ░░░░░░░░ won t avoid those ░░░░░░░░ subsistence farmers in Africa ░░░░░░░░ know they re going ░░░░░░░░ having 1 out of ░░░░░░░░ years where their harvest ░░░░░░░░ they will get to ░░░░░░░░ point where it s ░░░░░░░░ out of 4 years ░░░░░░░░ that leads to you ░░░░░░░░ severe malnutrition and starvation ░░░░░░░░ a time when the ░░░░░░░░ growth soil quality many ░░░░░░░░ are working against you ░░░░░░░░ I m not just ░░░░░░░░ believer in taking the ░░░░░░░░ percent of your income ░░░░░░░░ Americans spend on energy ░░░░░░░░ saying ok let s ░░░░░░░░ pay a premium to ░░░░░░░░ like we re clean ░░░░░░░░ but rather you ve ░░░░░░░░ to solve this problem ░░░░░░░░ China India and Africa ░░░░░░░░ making energy super expensive ░░░░░░░░ that you know that ░░░░░░░░ makes what s already ░░░░░░░░ almost impossible problem even ░░░░░░░░ more difficult so given ░░░░░░░░ interest in this when ░░░░░░░░ Paris Agreement was going ░░░░░░░░ be signed in in ░░░░░░░░ and 2015 you put ░░░░░░░░ with a with your ░░░░░░░░ you know high net ░░░░░░░░ individuals around the world ░░░░░░░░ called a breakthrough Energy ░░░░░░░░ what was your goal ░░░░░░░░ was the long term ░░░░░░░░ in that well my ░░░░░░░░ view when people come ░░░░░░░░ me and say hey ░░░░░░░░ world is going to ░░░░░░░░ into a state of ░░░░░░░░ this is a huge ░░░░░░░░ it s unsolvable my ░░░░░░░░ is well maybe they ░░░░░░░░ under estimating the power ░░░░░░░░ innovation to come along ░░░░░░░░ and change and improve ░░░░░░░░ and so in the ░░░░░░░░ you know and I ░░░░░░░░ reading about climate change ░░░░░░░░ then after the 2000 ░░░░░░░░ ken caldera David Keith ░░░░░░░░ few people I started ░░░░░░░░ them on on a ░░░░░░░░ basis to educate me ░░░░░░░░ telling me what to ░░░░░░░░ about climate change the ░░░░░░░░ that blew my mind ░░░░░░░░ that people would about ░░░░░░░░ downstream taxes and subsidies ░░░░░░░░ there was no discussion ░░░░░░░░ upstream incentives no discussion ░░░░░░░░ increasing the energy R ░░░░░░░░ D budget the U ░░░░░░░░ energy R amp D ░░░░░░░░ post it was reduced ░░░░░░░░ Reagan Carter had had ░░░░░░░░ it up and Reagan ░░░░░░░░ drove it down and ░░░░░░░░ stayed down and all ░░░░░░░░ climate people they never ░░░░░░░░ about the research budget ░░░░░░░░ know I think it ░░░░░░░░ partly a confusion about ░░░░░░░░ nature of the problem ░░░░░░░░ know what it means ░░░░░░░░ electricity is only 25 ░░░░░░░░ the problem and you ░░░░░░░░ reliable electricity and the ░░░░░░░░ is not to to ░░░░░░░░ know take a bow ░░░░░░░░ you use natural gas ░░░░░░░░ you ve got a ░░░░░░░░ of two that s ░░░░░░░░ that contributes zero in ░░░░░░░░ because the forcing function ░░░░░░░░ sooner on natural gas ░░░░░░░░ cold and out graphs ░░░░░░░░ now in the next ░░░░░░░░ years and then shutting ░░░░░░░░ down that s a ░░░░░░░░ addition it s just ░░░░░░░░ you re doing your ░░░░░░░░ wrong because you don ░░░░░░░░ understand the way the ░░░░░░░░ trade offs are done ░░░░░░░░ natural gas anyway so ░░░░░░░░ idea that Rd wasn ░░░░░░░░ like the plain thing ░░░░░░░░ I remember sitting with ░░░░░░░░ there are a bunch ░░░░░░░░ us there I d ░░░░░░░░ this coalition and you ░░░░░░░░ I was saying hey ░░░░░░░░ you could only do ░░░░░░░░ thing increase the R ░░░░░░░░ D budget and he ░░░░░░░░ no I can do ░░░░░░░░ the carbon tax and ░░░░░░░░ R amp D budget ░░░░░░░░ and we ended up ░░░░░░░░ nothing at all even ░░░░░░░░ the R amp D ░░░░░░░░ which is a long ░░░░░░░░ time piece which is ░░░░░░░░ necessary probably could have ░░░░░░░░ done so any encases ░░░░░░░░ of the Paris climate ░░░░░░░░ I d gone to ░░░░░░░░ different countries and said ░░░░░░░░ you come and commit ░░░░░░░░ double your energy R ░░░░░░░░ D budget and in ░░░░░░░░ the only reason Modi ░░░░░░░░ to the event was ░░░░░░░░ he was enthused about ░░░░░░░░ we picked his name ░░░░░░░░ it which was called ░░░░░░░░ innovation and you know ░░░░░░░░ was this big announcement ░░░░░░░░ and in fact most ░░░░░░░░ the countries that announced ░░░░░░░░ followed through the U ░░░░░░░░ is slightly off a ░░░░░░░░ doubling but you know ░░░░░░░░ total an extra 3 ░░░░░░░░ now has gone into ░░░░░░░░ amp D since that ░░░░░░░░ which does tilt the ░░░░░░░░ slightly in the favor ░░░░░░░░ the break that we ░░░░░░░░ now we also need ░░░░░░░░ basic research budget is ░░░░░░░░ an enabling thing you ░░░░░░░░ the next step after ░░░░░░░░ but it it it ░░░░░░░░ certainly critical and was ░░░░░░░░ on the agenda so ░░░░░░░░ lot of people are ░░░░░░░░ optimistic as you know ░░░░░░░░ wind and sold the ░░░░░░░░ cost coming down the ░░░░░░░░ costs are coming down ░░░░░░░░ think that s enough ░░░░░░░░ do you think that ░░░░░░░░ so disappointing I mean ░░░░░░░░ the Vaslav yesterday he ░░░░░░░░ okay here s Tokyo ░░░░░░░░ million people you have ░░░░░░░░ days of a cyclone ░░░░░░░░ every year it s ░░░░░░░░ gigawatts rate over three ░░░░░░░░ you know tell me ░░░░░░░░ battery solution is going ░░░░░░░░ sit there and provide ░░░░░░░░ power I mean let ░░░░░░░░ not joke around your ░░░░░░░░ orders of magnitude you ░░░░░░░░ a hundred dollars per ░░░░░░░░ hour that s nothing ░░░░░░░░ doesn t solve the ░░░░░░░░ problem and remember electricity ░░░░░░░░ 25 percent of greenhouse ░░░░░░░░ emissions whenever we came ░░░░░░░░ with this term clean ░░░░░░░░ I think it s ░░░░░░░░ up people s minds ░░░░░░░░ they didn t now ░░░░░░░░ don t understand I ░░░░░░░░ at this conference in ░░░░░░░░ York I won t ░░░░░░░░ it and they were ░░░░░░░░ all these financial guys ░░░░░░░░ on stage and said ░░░░░░░░ we re gonna rate ░░░░░░░░ in terms of their ░░░░░░░░ output we re gonna ░░░░░░░░ this company puts out ░░░░░░░░ lot of CO2 and ░░░░░░░░ markets are magical and ░░░░░░░░ of a sudden the ░░░░░░░░ will stop being emitted ░░░░░░░░ I was like okay ░░░░░░░░ do you make steel ░░░░░░░░ you do guys on ░░░░░░░░ Street do you have ░░░░░░░░ in your desks that ░░░░░░░░ steel what where s ░░░░░░░░ fertilizer cement plastic where ░░░░░░░░ it going to come ░░░░░░░░ you know do planes ░░░░░░░░ through the sky because ░░░░░░░░ some number you put ░░░░░░░░ a spreadsheet so the ░░░░░░░░ Madness of this so ░░░░░░░░ finance is the solution ░░░░░░░░ don t get I ░░░░░░░░ don t get that ░░░░░░░░ is no substitute for ░░░░░░░░ have the industrial economy ░░░░░░░░ today and you know ░░░░░░░░ paradigmatic country is India ░░░░░░░░ India pay a premium ░░░░░░░░ to have materials to ░░░░░░░░ buildings to get rid ░░░░░░░░ slums will they pay ░░░░░░░░ premium price for air ░░░░░░░░ basically the answer is ░░░░░░░░ the voters there won ░░░░░░░░ and they probably shouldn ░░░░░░░░ deny themselves when their ░░░░░░░░ gas emissions per person ░░░░░░░░ only a twentieth what ░░░░░░░░ US has already admit ░░░░░░░░ and so you know ░░░░░░░░ should go first and ░░░░░░░░ emissions per person down ░░░░░░░░ make up for what ░░░░░░░░ in house of course ░░░░░░░░ should be us so ░░░░░░░░ s not even an ░░░░░░░░ in justice that says ░░░░░░░░ price premium ways of ░░░░░░░░ all the things not ░░░░░░░░ electricity that that happens ░░░░░░░░ the idea that we ░░░░░░░░ the current tools and ░░░░░░░░ s just because these ░░░░░░░░ people are evil people ░░░░░░░░ if we would just ░░░░░░░░ on them and you ░░░░░░░░ put it on our ░░░░░░░░ that is that is ░░░░░░░░ real that s more ░░░░░░░░ a block than climate ░░░░░░░░ the climate is easy ░░░░░░░░ solve group is our ░░░░░░░░ problem so what are ░░░░░░░░ what are the breakthroughs ░░░░░░░░ you think we need ░░░░░░░░ terms of technology well ░░░░░░░░ s pretty straightforward that ░░░░░░░░ the electricity sector either ░░░░░░░░ something like nuclear fission ░░░░░░░░ fusion that runs 24 ░░░░░░░░ with the high duty ░░░░░░░░ or if you re ░░░░░░░░ to rely on intermittent ░░░░░░░░ then you need some ░░░░░░░░ miracle that s more ░░░░░░░░ order of magnitude away ░░░░░░░░ anything this grid storage ░░░░░░░░ not consumer vehicles going ░░░░░░░░ miles this is you ░░░░░░░░ hey Tokyo don t ░░░░░░░░ t worry about it ░░░░░░░░ was it was cheap ░░░░░░░░ solve and by the ░░░░░░░░ you re only getting ░░░░░░░░ out of that battery ░░░░░░░░ a year so you ░░░░░░░░ do the math on ░░░░░░░░ that looks like per ░░░░░░░░ hour anyway so you ░░░░░░░░ electricity generation you have ░░░░░░░░ industrial economy so you ░░░░░░░░ to figure out how ░░░░░░░░ make all those things ░░░░░░░░ lot of the things ░░░░░░░░ hydrogen act that actually ░░░░░░░░ several of those things ░░░░░░░░ terms of the chemists ░░░░░░░░ type side of that ░░░░░░░░ but steel and cement ░░░░░░░░ kind of special and ░░░░░░░░ particular solutions you have ░░░░░░░░ problems other than cars ░░░░░░░░ the energy intensity far ░░░░░░░░ difficult and the the ░░░░░░░░ of the emissions are ░░░░░░░░ and meat related emissions ░░░░░░░░ those are very difficult ░░░░░░░░ re you know I ░░░░░░░░ things like impossible foods ░░░░░░░░ me a variety of ░░░░░░░░ to try and completely ░░░░░░░░ how products that the ░░░░░░░░ test is can you ░░░░░░░░ it s artificial meat ░░░░░░░░ not if you can ░░░░░░░░ we re in big ░░░░░░░░ so the goal is ░░░░░░░░ in the next five ░░░░░░░░ to have that product ░░░░░░░░ least on the ground ░░░░░░░░ category be such that ░░░░░░░░ cannot tell the difference ░░░░░░░░ that s pretty big ░░░░░░░░ mean cows if they ░░░░░░░░ a country they would ░░░░░░░░ in the top five ░░░░░░░░ in the world that ░░░░░░░░ just cows and people ░░░░░░░░ me they ve tried ░░░░░░░░ feed them different things ░░░░░░░░ put a little torch ░░░░░░░░ their bottle things it ░░░░░░░░ t work but it ░░░░░░░░ also the deforestation that ░░░░░░░░ caused by grazing and ░░░░░░░░ like that that s ░░░░░░░░ but the beef you ░░░░░░░░ if you get to ░░░░░░░░ sergey DP per person ░░░░░░░░ you have reforestation so ░░░░░░░░ today is more forested ░░░░░░░░ it s been in ░░░░░░░░ in the last 60 ░░░░░░░░ but in general you ░░░░░░░░ get deforestation so if ░░░░░░░░ take Indonesia and Brazil ░░░░░░░░ biggest category of emissions ░░░░░░░░ far is the land ░░░░░░░░ piece if you take ░░░░░░░░ New Zealand it s ░░░░░░░░ cows that are there ░░░░░░░░ are the are the ░░░░░░░░ so the you need ░░░░░░░░ in a surprising number ░░░░░░░░ sectors of the economy ░░░░░░░░ unfortunately the goal is ░░░░░░░░ actually the way they ░░░░░░░░ the models now because ░░░░░░░░ re trying to make ░░░░░░░░ look like 1 5 ░░░░░░░░ isn t the biggest ░░░░░░░░ ever they show these ░░░░░░░░ negative emissions you know ░░░░░░░░ I m the biggest ░░░░░░░░ of various carbon capture ░░░░░░░░ liquid solid you name ░░░░░░░░ but the likelihood of ░░░░░░░░ being economic that is ░░░░░░░░ than two orders of ░░░░░░░░ non economic right at ░░░░░░░░ moment and as Voskhod ░░░░░░░░ us it would have ░░░░░░░░ be 10 times the ░░░░░░░░ of the oil industry ░░░░░░░░ is the amount of ░░░░░░░░ that you would have ░░░░░░░░ stick underground this is ░░░░░░░░ times the entire oil ░░░░░░░░ so let s talk ░░░░░░░░ the agriculture inside because ░░░░░░░░ think that s really ░░░░░░░░ I m a product ░░░░░░░░ the Green Revolution which ░░░░░░░░ this short strain of ░░░░░░░░ I would not be ░░░░░░░░ if it was not ░░░░░░░░ for that do you ░░░░░░░░ given the tools that ░░░░░░░░ have in biology today ░░░░░░░░ CRISPR cast nine and ░░░░░░░░ the gene editing do ░░░░░░░░ think there s another ░░░░░░░░ Revolution we should have ░░░░░░░░ just for for a ░░░░░░░░ but for carbon as ░░░░░░░░ and maybe a combination ░░░░░░░░ the two and one ░░░░░░░░ you think that s ░░░░░░░░ well yeah the the ░░░░░░░░ Foundation funds thing called ░░░░░░░░ photo CITIC photosynthetic efficiency ░░░░░░░░ there is literally a ░░░░░░░░ of two to be ░░░░░░░░ in terms of changing ░░░░░░░░ basic photosynthetic pathway there ░░░░░░░░ about four different things ░░░░░░░░ have to do but ░░░░░░░░ photosynthetic pathway is not ░░░░░░░░ that if there was ░░░░░░░░ evolutionary bottom like when ░░░░░░░░ levels were very low ░░░░░░░░ these plants don t ░░░░░░░░ the right Rubisco and ░░░░░░░░ right they turn off ░░░░░░░░ don t like to ░░░░░░░░ and so they re ░░░░░░░░ maximizers in terms of ░░░░░░░░ output and so there ░░░░░░░░ various ways that you ░░░░░░░░ change photosynthesis that would ░░░░░░░░ extremely valuable not just ░░░░░░░░ the plant economy but ░░░░░░░░ she moved that over ░░░░░░░░ trees that are extremely ░░░░░░░░ they sequester carbon extremely ░░░░░░░░ that s a a ░░░░░░░░ standing stock of carbon ░░░░░░░░ it s a one ░░░░░░░░ time gain unless you ░░░░░░░░ some let s put ░░░░░░░░ down below below the ░░░░░░░░ eventually it ll rotten ░░░░░░░░ recycle back in so ░░░░░░░░ and I think it ░░░░░░░░ like improving photosynthetic efficiency ░░░░░░░░ funded you know what ░░░░░░░░ be cooler than improving ░░░░░░░░ efficiency but so yes ░░░░░░░░ need a new Green ░░░░░░░░ agriculture productivity in Africa ░░░░░░░░ a quarter of what ░░░░░░░░ is in in the ░░░░░░░░ and Europe it s ░░░░░░░░ you don t have ░░░░░░░░ Service you don t ░░░░░░░░ fertilizer you don t ░░░░░░░░ irrigation but it s ░░░░░░░░ that these seeds are ░░░░░░░░ well adapted to the ░░░░░░░░ environmental conditions in Africa ░░░░░░░░ more variety than any ░░░░░░░░ continent so the variety ░░░░░░░░ types of seeds you ░░░░░░░░ is actually a lot ░░░░░░░░ it s that whole ░░░░░░░░ thing is not well ░░░░░░░░ in but if you ░░░░░░░░ about climate adaptation the ░░░░░░░░ you would most invest ░░░░░░░░ by far the top ░░░░░░░░ the list would be ░░░░░░░░ productive seeds so if ░░░░░░░░ re only having three ░░░░░░░░ four good years you ░░░░░░░░ maintain buffer stock or ░░░░░░░░ sell it and you ░░░░░░░░ cash that holds you ░░░░░░░░ that year that your ░░░░░░░░ isn t working likewise ░░░░░░░░ s a lot we ░░░░░░░░ do to deal with ░░░░░░░░ temperature and deal with ░░░░░░░░ there are crops like ░░░░░░░░ that teach us how ░░░░░░░░ can deal with tough ░░░░░░░░ so switching subject you ░░░░░░░░ a big supporter of ░░░░░░░░ and in fact you ░░░░░░░░ in Keira power and ░░░░░░░░ question to you is ░░░░░░░░ now it is not ░░░░░░░░ competitive in the United ░░░░░░░░ Korea has done very ░░░░░░░░ in this and Keira ░░░░░░░░ is going to install ░░░░░░░░ think the first thing ░░░░░░░░ China and so what ░░░░░░░░ your thoughts on how ░░░░░░░░ make nuclear which is ░░░░░░░░ carbon fifth as you ░░░░░░░░ based low power how ░░░░░░░░ you make it competitive ░░░░░░░░ yes so nuclear starts ░░░░░░░░ for reactions with a ░░░░░░░░ times advantage over burning ░░░░░░░░ so you think hey ░░░░░░░░ factor of a million ░░░░░░░░ we must be able ░░░░░░░░ preserve at least some ░░░░░░░░ that and not be ░░░░░░░░ expensive in fact in ░░░░░░░░ U S nuclear is ░░░░░░░░ even close to being ░░░░░░░░ it s probably a ░░░░░░░░ of four or five ░░░░░░░░ competitive the key parameters ░░░░░░░░ a nuclear build are ░░░░░░░░ long it takes to ░░░░░░░░ what your interest rate ░░░░░░░░ your money is and ░░░░░░░░ some uncertainty factor whether ░░░░░░░░ get stopped or not ░░░░░░░░ so in China those ░░░░░░░░ are basically three to ░░░░░░░░ years and 2 whereas ░░░░░░░░ the U S there ░░░░░░░░ be 8 to 9 ░░░░░░░░ 15 percent and maybe ░░░░░░░░ percent chance you ll ░░░░░░░░ shut down before you ░░░░░░░░ started so when you ░░░░░░░░ competing with super cheap ░░░░░░░░ gas there s no ░░░░░░░░ also current designs are ░░░░░░░░ per output it s ░░░░░░░░ safest form of energy ░░░░░░░░ created more than say ░░░░░░░░ gas lines that blow ░░░░░░░░ in neighborhoods or coal ░░░░░░░░ that you know create ░░░░░░░░ that s not good ░░░░░░░░ health it because it ░░░░░░░░ in Chernobyl like events ░░░░░░░░ it s unfortunate those ░░░░░░░░ that have high pressure ░░░░░░░░ they don t have ░░░░░░░░ good heat pool and ░░░░░░░░ require operators to actually ░░░░░░░░ at lights and do ░░░░░░░░ it s a pathetic ░░░░░░░░ and yet it hasn ░░░░░░░░ been changed it hasn ░░░░░░░░ been redone in the ░░░░░░░░ age where we can ░░░░░░░░ simplify it make sure ░░░░░░░░ s no pressure anywhere ░░░░░░░░ forces you to in ░░░░░░░░ case of sodium pool ░░░░░░░░ so it s on ░░░░░░░░ which is where it ░░░░░░░░ in this incredible simulation ░░░░░░░░ thing is in phenomenal ░░░░░░░░ an end of so ░░░░░░░░ fourth generation nuclear it ░░░░░░░░ the only well funded ░░░░░░░░ even so you know ░░░░░░░░ requires the US and ░░░░░░░░ to work together how ░░░░░░░░ that going it requires ░░░░░░░░ lot of patient capital ░░░░░░░░ nuclear in China is ░░░░░░░░ than coal do you ░░░░░░░░ more tariffs by the ░░░░░░░░ well we need comedy ░░░░░░░░ need us and can ░░░░░░░░ a US and China ░░░░░░░░ work together to bring ░░░░░░░░ solution because the us ░░░░░░░░ of these issues is ░░░░░░░░ you know we shut ░░░░░░░░ at the FT F ░░░░░░░░ there was a lot ░░░░░░░░ materials learning there that ░░░░░░░░ quite fantastic and the ░░░░░░░░ are where they re ░░░░░░░░ to build a lot ░░░░░░░░ reactors really build them ░░░░░░░░ mean this they ll ░░░░░░░░ you the sights they ░░░░░░░░ quite serious about it ░░░░░░░░ even nuclear has a ░░░░░░░░ that s probably it ░░░░░░░░ you re talking about ░░░░░░░░ technological side if you ░░░░░░░░ somehow bring down the ░░░░░░░░ and make it safer ░░░░░░░░ these are all playing ░░░░░░░░ the energy markets and ░░░░░░░░ energy markets are short ░░░░░░░░ and these are investments ░░░░░░░░ are in a nuclear ░░░░░░░░ 60 years maybe seven ░░░░░░░░ maybe even longer in ░░░░░░░░ future so is there ░░░░░░░░ innovation on the market ░░░░░░░░ that will actually favor ░░░░░░░░ long term investment should ░░░░░░░░ be some innovations out ░░░░░░░░ well unlike software where ░░░░░░░░ customer set for a ░░░░░░░░ software product is very ░░░░░░░░ and a new entrant ░░░░░░░░ in and say okay ░░░░░░░░ ll serve the customers ░░░░░░░░ want the really cheap ░░░░░░░░ or the ones who ░░░░░░░░ the simple one of ░░░░░░░░ ones lots of features ░░░░░░░░ it comes to pumping ░░░░░░░░ at people there s ░░░░░░░░ one commodity market that ░░░░░░░░ more than demanding about ░░░░░░░░ and so the incentives ░░░░░░░░ utility company in going ░░░░░░░░ their regulator and saying ░░░░░░░░ we want to make ░░░░░░░░ with this new technology ░░░░░░░░ possible reward do they ░░░░░░░░ for taking risk that ░░░░░░░░ either fall on them ░░░░░░░░ fall on the ratepayers ░░░░░░░░ s it s not ░░░░░░░░ s a market whose ░░░░░░░░ amp D percentage is ░░░░░░░░ lowest of any large ░░░░░░░░ I m in that ░░░░░░░░ I m not calling ░░░░░░░░ a market it has ░░░░░░░░ lowest R amp D ░░░░░░░░ of any part of ░░░░░░░░ economy but energy of ░░░░░░░░ market market quote Riven ░░░░░░░░ has extremely laundry and ░░░░░░░░ s partly what you ░░░░░░░░ is anything you do ░░░░░░░░ you re packed by ░░░░░░░░ time it s used ░░░░░░░░ volume that your parents ░░░░░░░░ probably been expired and ░░░░░░░░ it s not like ░░░░░░░░ and people have been ░░░░░░░░ by software and in ░░░░░░░░ the great venture capitalists ░░░░░░░░ in the valley who ░░░░░░░░ a lot of green ░░░░░░░░ got a lot of ░░░░░░░░ feedback because they were ░░░░░░░░ on these much tougher ░░░░░░░░ and that s why ░░░░░░░░ new sort of wave ░░░░░░░░ that with incredible help ░░░░░░░░ John Doerr Vinod Khosla ░░░░░░░░ who really pioneered the ░░░░░░░░ now this breakthrough energy ░░░░░░░░ is trying to step ░░░░░░░░ to that space ok ░░░░░░░░ ll fund things and ░░░░░░░░ know we have a ░░░░░░░░ year lifetime which is ░░░░░░░░ than a typical venture ░░░░░░░░ you ll put you ░░░░░░░░ money behind that and ░░░░░░░░ have other people putting ░░░░░░░░ into breakthrough energy ventures ░░░░░░░░ that you seeing the ░░░░░░░░ sort of the new ░░░░░░░░ and the entrepreneurial spirit ░░░░░░░░ out what excites you ░░░░░░░░ where are the gaps ░░░░░░░░ m more excited than ░░░░░░░░ expected to be you ░░░░░░░░ I was calling up ░░░░░░░░ people and saying hey ░░░░░░░░ s put a billion ░░░░░░░░ together they were like ░░░░░░░░ they re good stuff ░░░░░░░░ there oh sure absolutely ░░░░░░░░ you know I was ░░░░░░░░ that was true you ░░░░░░░░ so we hired an ░░░░░░░░ team a high percentage ░░░░░░░░ XR PE people who ░░░░░░░░ fantastic so there s ░░░░░░░░ a little over a ░░░░░░░░ ago when we got ░░░░░░░░ team in place and ░░░░░░░░ the deal flow that ░░░░░░░░ ve seen and we ░░░░░░░░ a kind of a ░░░░░░░░ criteria which is we ░░░░░░░░ t invest in something ░░░░░░░░ if it works it ░░░░░░░░ avoid a half a ░░░░░░░░ of greenhouse gas emissions ░░░░░░░░ know so we can ░░░░░░░░ artificial meat we can ░░░░░░░░ new ways making steel ░░░░░░░░ know across the whole ░░░░░░░░ it s not just ░░░░░░░░ but we re not ░░░░░░░░ to invest in some ░░░░░░░░ things so like climate ░░░░░░░░ which the note had ░░░░░░░░ his green phone thank ░░░░░░░░ because that s what ░░░░░░░░ it profitable that wouldn ░░░░░░░░ fit our criteria of ░░░░░░░░ to invest in and ░░░░░░░░ so we are seeing ░░░░░░░░ lot of great stuff ░░░░░░░░ fact if you set ░░░░░░░░ money for the later ░░░░░░░░ of these companies that ░░░░░░░░ don t need yet ░░░░░░░░ ll only take us ░░░░░░░░ two to three years ░░░░░░░░ all that money is ░░░░░░░░ to those companies and ░░░░░░░░ successful follow on things ░░░░░░░░ think we mean to ░░░░░░░░ part of and so ░░░░░░░░ ll we ll go ░░░░░░░░ and say hey let ░░░░░░░░ let s do more ░░░░░░░░ the the the deep ░░░░░░░░ and these are you ░░░░░░░░ there s no guarantee ░░░░░░░░ know the fact that ░░░░░░░░ you know chips actually ░░░░░░░░ or sending signals through ░░░░░░░░ air actually works you ░░░░░░░░ it s assuming there ░░░░░░░░ great breakthroughs like that ░░░░░░░░ you know only nature ░░░░░░░░ the answer to those ░░░░░░░░ but it appears that ░░░░░░░░ know making hydrogen cheap ░░░░░░░░ Steel cheap there at ░░░░░░░░ for every crazy thing ░░░░░░░░ need to solve we ░░░░░░░░ finding at least three ░░░░░░░░ four people most of ░░░░░░░░ will end up being ░░░░░░░░ who are willing to ░░░░░░░░ hey write us a ░░░░░░░░ and and we ll ░░░░░░░░ work on that terrific ░░░░░░░░ prospects of nuclear fusion ░░░░░░░░ the breakthrough energy did ░░░░░░░░ money into Commonwealth fusion ░░░░░░░░ which is sort of ░░░░░░░░ MIT approach where you ░░░░░░░░ the fact that you ░░░░░░░░ do these extremely high ░░░░░░░░ magnets and so you ░░░░░░░░ the design and it ░░░░░░░░ a lot smaller also ░░░░░░░░ plumb with fusion isn ░░░░░░░░ just making it work ░░░░░░░░ nobody s ever gotten ░░░░░░░░ energy breakeven making an ░░░░░░░░ is hard because you ░░░░░░░░ in our our fission ░░░░░░░░ we have these neutrons ░░░░░░░░ they you know degrade ░░░░░░░░ materials and it s ░░░░░░░░ s the toughest thing ░░░░░░░░ that the so called ░░░░░░░░ wave reactor design of ░░░░░░░░ power these fusion guys ░░░░░░░░ neutrons are in a ░░░░░░░░ different league in terms ░░░░░░░░ so how they replace ░░░░░░░░ over time is very ░░░░░░░░ and there are may ░░░░░░░░ there are actually more ░░░░░░░░ companies in the North ░░░░░░░░ several are Canadian today ░░░░░░░░ there are fission companies ░░░░░░░░ a certain sense if ░░░░░░░░ put aside SMR they ░░░░░░░░ really other than terraPower ░░░░░░░░ t any really big ░░░░░░░░ fusion companies sort of ░░░░░░░░ there s quite a ░░░░░░░░ now a lot of ░░░░░░░░ look sketchy to me ░░░░░░░░ you know thank God ░░░░░░░░ try then yes right ░░░░░░░░ I mean having a ░░░░░░░░ companies is very impressive ░░░░░░░░ that that s going ░░░░░░░░ I think we are ░░░░░░░░ not only magnetic confinement ░░░░░░░░ but also inertial confinement ░░░░░░░░ actually combinations of those ░░░░░░░░ that are actually you ░░░░░░░░ being tried out now ░░░░░░░░ of them will fail ░░░░░░░░ of them will fail ░░░░░░░░ hoping that some of ░░░░░░░░ may or one of ░░░░░░░░ may actually succeed and ░░░░░░░░ s the breakthrough that ░░░░░░░░ you have assembled an ░░░░░░░░ group of billionaires in ░░░░░░░░ breakthrough Energy Coalition and ░░░░░░░░ are now investing in ░░░░░░░░ but that platform that ░░░░░░░░ have is obviously more ░░░░░░░░ just technology what else ░░░░░░░░ you want to accomplish ░░░░░░░░ this group of people ░░░░░░░░ you assemble worldwide well ░░░░░░░░ we want to be ░░░░░░░░ voice to encourage these ░░░░░░░░ budgets to go up ░░░░░░░░ stay up and to ░░░░░░░░ spent properly you know ░░░░░░░░ just did a deal ░░░░░░░░ the European Union where ░░░░░░░░ put money in to ░░░░░░░░ startups literally European Union ░░░░░░░░ and it s because ░░░░░░░░ re worried that if ░░░░░░░░ raise the research money ░░░░░░░░ won t be investors ░░░░░░░░ to Europe and finding ░░░░░░░░ really good work there ░░░░░░░░ and so it was ░░░░░░░░ sort of pretty cool ░░░░░░░░ pro quo we never ░░░░░░░░ have gotten that mission ░░░░░░░░ R amp D increase ░░░░░░░░ we haven t said ░░░░░░░░ there will be a ░░░░░░░░ fund that will take ░░░░░░░░ best work and and ░░░░░░░░ it forward ideally in ░░░░░░░░ the way into a ░░░░░░░░ so being a voice ░░░░░░░░ okay what are the ░░░░░░░░ barriers to these startup ░░░░░░░░ what type what types ░░░░░░░░ tax credits and approach ░░░░░░░░ very helpful you know ░░░░░░░░ it s mostly the ░░░░░░░░ curve for solar wind ░░░░░░░░ you know is that ░░░░░░░░ compared to other technologies ░░░░░░░░ have this weird thing ░░░░░░░░ working 24 hours a ░░░░░░░░ you know should you ░░░░░░░░ be funding the intermittent ░░░░░░░░ with all the money ░░░░░░░░ putting no money in ░░░░░░░░ stuff that works all ░░░░░░░░ time and so the ░░░░░░░░ policies you know you ░░░░░░░░ to think Japan or ░░░░░░░░ in the US for ░░░░░░░░ the solar panel in ░░░░░░░░ is today largely a ░░░░░░░░ industry bill Yura you ░░░░░░░░ these people from all ░░░░░░░░ the world and they ░░░░░░░░ very influential you are ░░░░░░░░ global citizen do you ░░░░░░░░ we have a shot ░░░░░░░░ some point at a ░░░░░░░░ carbon price well the ░░░░░░░░ is a big place ░░░░░░░░ have a hundred 90 ░░░░░░░░ countries you know I ░░░░░░░░ involved in eradicating polio ░░░░░░░░ you know so I ░░░░░░░░ with northern Nigeria Somalia ░░░░░░░░ Sudan Afghanistan you know ░░░░░░░░ know we re in ░░░░░░░░ we still have polio ░░░░░░░░ if you say global ░░░░░░░░ brings up an image ░░░░░░░░ me that okay you ░░░░░░░░ not gonna get every ░░░░░░░░ in this thing and ░░░░░░░░ is interesting that of ░░░░░░░░ the tough problems stopping ░░░░░░░░ solving climate change they ░░░░░░░░ cooperation problems that no ░░░░░░░░ country alone can do ░░░░░░░░ I m hopeful that ░░░░░░░░ can get most the ░░░░░░░░ countries involved in that ░░░░░░░░ think it s a ░░░░░░░░ very helpful thing to ░░░░░░░░ that price signal it ░░░░░░░░ not to go being ░░░░░░░░ the sense that it ░░░░░░░░ for the damage it ░░░░░░░░ not at all it ░░░░░░░░ simply a price signal ░░░░░░░░ incent some risk taking ░░░░░░░░ but not the classic ░░░░░░░░ hey pay the price ░░░░░░░░ that s what the ░░░░░░░░ to society was it ░░░░░░░░ not within a factor ░░░░░░░░ 100 of what that ░░░░░░░░ issue project out into ░░░░░░░░ future certainly for things ░░░░░░░░ carbon capture and sequestration ░░░░░░░░ that will that there ░░░░░░░░ not a view that ░░░░░░░░ will ever be positive ░░░░░░░░ you ve got to ░░░░░░░░ that and that probably ░░░░░░░░ a necessary thing and ░░░░░░░░ ve got the sense ░░░░░░░░ it ll be there ░░░░░░░░ a long period of ░░░░░░░░ I do think you ░░░░░░░░ some things that are ░░░░░░░░ think will come back ░░░░░░░░ know I think the ░░░░░░░░ will reenter the Paris ░░░░░░░░ Accord but you know ░░░░░░░░ Germany who s very ░░░░░░░░ meaning they managed to ░░░░░░░░ their consumers pay the ░░░░░░░░ electricity prices in the ░░░░░░░░ their net carbon reduction ░░░░░░░░ less than than 10 ░░░░░░░░ so the world is ░░░░░░░░ had a year where ░░░░░░░░ make less CO2 and ░░░░░░░░ know that will be ░░░░░░░░ interesting year if it ░░░░░░░░ not because of a ░░░░░░░░ recession what is that ░░░░░░░░ year but yes the ░░░░░░░░ would make sense but ░░░░░░░░ you map it into ░░░░░░░░ you know are you ░░░░░░░░ taxing those poor people ░░░░░░░░ just getting air conditioning ░░░░░░░░ the first time you ░░░░░░░░ wow I want to ░░░░░░░░ that politician figured that ░░░░░░░░ well talk we started ░░░░░░░░ discussion with some substance ░░░░░░░░ farmers in Africa and ░░░░░░░░ and you know they ░░░░░░░░ many of them as ░░░░░░░░ have seen are still ░░░░░░░░ the 19th century so ░░░░░░░░ you think they they ░░░░░░░░ get the infrastructure that ░░░░░░░░ have in the 20th ░░░░░░░░ is there a possibility ░░░░░░░░ leapfrogging that they did ░░░░░░░░ telephony and if so ░░░░░░░░ would be that infrastructure ░░░░░░░░ would be the system ░░░░░░░░ will you know empower ░░░░░░░░ and get them out ░░░░░░░░ poverty for the energy ░░░░░░░░ one thing that really ░░░░░░░░ irritating to me is ░░░░░░░░ people think oh let ░░░░░░░░ just get Africa to ░░░░░░░░ clean energy you know ░░░░░░░░ get them they are ░░░░░░░░ there of emissions if ░░░░░░░░ need to build hydro ░░░░░░░░ let them build those ░░░░░░░░ dams and yes the ░░░░░░░░ reservoir causes methane emissions ░░░░░░░░ s fairly big numbers ░░░░░░░░ Africa should not be ░░░░░░░░ they should do whatever ░░░░░░░░ takes to reduce malnutrition ░░░░░░░░ starvation and and so ░░░░░░░░ and people get confused ░░░░░░░░ think oh let s ░░░░░░░░ them have little lights ░░░░░░░░ night well you don ░░░░░░░░ create any jobs the ░░░░░░░░ of electricity required to ░░░░░░░░ a job that is ░░░░░░░░ intermittent electricity that is ░░░░░░░░ that s there all ░░░░░░░░ time so just you ░░░░░░░░ cheap solar panels which ░░░░░░░░ great that is no ░░░░░░░░ they need grids they ░░░░░░░░ you know rather large ░░░░░░░░ of power yes I ░░░░░░░░ that we have some ░░░░░░░░ that their relative lack ░░░░░░░░ installed base makes them ░░░░░░░░ good candidate but if ░░░░░░░░ really say who s ░░░░░░░░ to add energy capacity ░░░░░░░░ the next 25 years ░░░░░░░░ s India and China ░░░░░░░░ know China still has ░░░░░░░░ doubling left if India ░░░░░░░░ on a reasonable economic ░░░░░░░░ post they have a ░░░░░░░░ of 4 that s ░░░░░░░░ still to increase you ░░░░░░░░ sub saharan Africa is ░░░░░░░░ eventual problem but this ░░░░░░░░ should first be solved ░░░░░░░░ China and India with ░░░░░░░░ from the the richer ░░░░░░░░ and then we can ░░░░░░░░ it on to Africa ░░░░░░░░ I m not seeing ░░░░░░░░ things that that are ░░░░░░░░ southla homes where they ░░░░░░░░ obviate the need for ░░░░░░░░ grid for for example ░░░░░░░░ if somebody has that ░░░░░░░░ hallelujah terrific on that ░░░░░░░░ note thank you so ░░░░░░░░ for being here and ░░░░░░░░ have a standing room ░░░░░░░░ know only out here ░░░░░░░░ s thank Bill for ░░░░░░░░ here and sharing his ░░░░░░░░ Music]