RUSH TRANSCRIPT Guys Manu ░░░░░░░░ you very very much ░░░░░░░░ big week ahead for ░░░░░░░░ Joining us now to ░░░░░░░░ Elizabeth Holtzman she sat ░░░░░░░░ the House Judiciary Committee ░░░░░░░░ the Nixon impeachment inquiry ░░░░░░░░ political analyst Ron Brownstein ░░░░░░░░ legal analyst Renato marriotti ░░░░░░░░ lot of folks talking ░░░░░░░░ this They don t ░░░░░░░░ firsthand experience of this ░░░░░░░░ of moment in history ░░░░░░░░ have So we want ░░░░░░░░ take advantage of that ░░░░░░░░ you Watergate moved more ░░░░░░░░ than I think people ░░░░░░░░ right Correct This is ░░░░░░░░ slowly though And we ░░░░░░░░ at a uniquely partisan ░░░░░░░░ in this country Do ░░░░░░░░ see the evidence that ░░░░░░░░ been accumulated here changing ░░░░░░░░ partisan divide on this ░░░░░░░░ question Is this impeachable ░░░░░░░░ Well I think my ░░░░░░░░ is that it does ░░░░░░░░ to an impeachable offense ░░░░░░░░ s because we had ░░░░░░░░ spend a lot of ░░░░░░░░ during the Nixon impeachment ░░░░░░░░ studying the Constitution reading ░░░░░░░░ British legal parliamentary history ░░░░░░░░ boring stuff So I ░░░░░░░░ been through it High ░░░░░░░░ and misdemeanor possibly even ░░░░░░░░ here means an egregious ░░░░░░░░ of power that attacks ░░░░░░░░ democracy or threatens the ░░░░░░░░ Not just any abuse ░░░░░░░░ s a really serious ░░░░░░░░ Okay I think we ░░░░░░░░ evidence generally shows that ░░░░░░░░ the question is there ░░░░░░░░ still some facts to ░░░░░░░░ out And the president ░░░░░░░░ denying that anything wrong ░░░░░░░░ and the Republicans are ░░░░░░░░ anything wrong happened That ░░░░░░░░ what happened in Watergate ░░░░░░░░ course they said nothing ░░░░░░░░ happened We know that ░░░░░░░░ ultimately the facts if ░░░░░░░░ re presented in a ░░░░░░░░ and reasonable fashion I ░░░░░░░░ and the process seems ░░░░░░░░ be fair that s ░░░░░░░░ to be very persuasive ░░░░░░░░ the American people I ░░░░░░░░ not sure even in ░░░░░░░░ they understood all the ░░░░░░░░ Remember we had a ░░░░░░░░ slew of charges It ░░░░░░░░ t just the cover ░░░░░░░░ It was illegal wiretapping ░░░░░░░░ was trying to get ░░░░░░░░ IRS to audit political ░░░░░░░░ Okay so and a ░░░░░░░░ of other things I ░░░░░░░░ not sure they got ░░░░░░░░ all But they saw ░░░░░░░░ it was a proper ░░░░░░░░ process So I think ░░░░░░░░ don t think you ░░░░░░░░ make predictions about it ░░░░░░░░ think the Democrats are ░░░░░░░░ it in a fair ░░░░░░░░ reasonable fashion What will ░░░░░░░░ in the end I ░░░░░░░░ the American people will ░░░░░░░░ persuaded I mean one ░░░░░░░░ that strikes me very ░░░░░░░░ given Watergate is the ░░░░░░░░ that well since the ░░░░░░░░ was turned over and ░░░░░░░░ were no investigations there ░░░░░░░░ no impeachable offense I ░░░░░░░░ glad you bring that ░░░░░░░░ up I don t ░░░░░░░░ enough people fully understood ░░░░░░░░ timeline here We were ░░░░░░░░ about it last week ░░░░░░░░ was just two days ░░░░░░░░ Brownstein the aid was ░░░░░░░░ over starting on September ░░░░░░░░ in tranches thereafter The ░░░░░░░░ blower case all of ░░░░░░░░ coming to lawmakers was ░░░░░░░░ September 9th It was ░░░░░░░░ after that that the ░░░░░░░░ was turned over But ░░░░░░░░ sondland does not become ░░░░░░░░ witness the Democrats are ░░░░░░░░ he s going to ░░░░░░░░ Ron and say yep ░░░░░░░░ of these called happened ░░░░░░░░ everyone else has testified ░░░░░░░░ the July 26th call ░░░░░░░░ president told me to ░░░░░░░░ this and we re ░░░░░░░░ to hold aid until ░░░░░░░░ happens then what happens ░░░░░░░░ the Democrats case Because ░░░░░░░░ s their first person ░░░░░░░░ First of all as ░░░░░░░░ ve said before the ░░░░░░░░ that the Republicans are ░░░░░░░░ just kind of collapses ░░░░░░░░ contact Because it would ░░░░░░░░ you to believe that ░░░░░░░░ and Giuliani and volcker ░░░░░░░░ this up on their ░░░░░░░░ Since there s no ░░░░░░░░ that the demands were ░░░░░░░░ to the Ukrainians The ░░░░░░░░ that they cooked this ░░░░░░░░ on their own and ░░░░░░░░ on these investigations as ░░░░░░░░ price not only for ░░░░░░░░ White House meeting but ░░░░░░░░ lethal aid that was ░░░░░░░░ to defend the country ░░░░░░░░ Russian aggression it just ░░░░░░░░ of defies logic that ░░░░░░░░ would have either the ░░░░░░░░ or the ability to ░░░░░░░░ the government to withhold ░░░░░░░░ without the president s ░░░░░░░░ Sondland he faces really ░░░░░░░░ choices this week It ░░░░░░░░ an exquisite kind of ░░░░░░░░ of history that immediately ░░░░░░░░ he goes to testify ░░░░░░░░ for the third time ░░░░░░░░ his story Roger Stone ░░░░░░░░ convicted of lying to ░░░░░░░░ You know just days ░░░░░░░░ So he faces a ░░░░░░░░ think a very consequential ░░░░░░░░ But the idea that ░░░░░░░░ entire choice hangs on ░░░░░░░░ saying yes the president ░░░░░░░░ me to do it ░░░░░░░░ think just is not ░░░░░░░░ Because the evidence is ░░░░░░░░ that it was done ░░░░░░░░ the alternative idea that ░░░░░░░░ have put out that ░░░░░░░░ was really sondland and ░░░░░░░░ who did this on ░░░░░░░░ own is that really ░░░░░░░░ to anyone Yeah Renato ░░░░░░░░ we have a witness ░░░░░░░░ who already changed his ░░░░░░░░ testimony amended things that ░░░░░░░░ didn t put in ░░░░░░░░ original He s under ░░░░░░░░ pressure here Does he ░░░░░░░░ any choice but to ░░░░░░░░ it all up and ░░░░░░░░ this is exactly what ░░░░░░░░ Can he be clever ░░░░░░░░ half here and try ░░░░░░░░ please the president Or ░░░░░░░░ the legal pressures are ░░░░░░░░ clear I think he ░░░░░░░░ be a little clever ░░░░░░░░ I suspect what Mr ░░░░░░░░ is going to say ░░░░░░░░ either I don t ░░░░░░░░ that conversation In other ░░░░░░░░ I understand that these ░░░░░░░░ people are saying this ░░░░░░░░ m not saying they ░░░░░░░░ wrong I just don ░░░░░░░░ remember it at this ░░░░░░░░ Or he could say ░░░░░░░░ know do what he ░░░░░░░░ before saying his memory ░░░░░░░░ been refreshed And I ░░░░░░░░ that s hard to ░░░░░░░░ and we re all ░░░░░░░░ why he has this ░░░░░░░░ memory But I don ░░░░░░░░ think he has a ░░░░░░░░ risk of being prosecuted ░░░░░░░░ question for someone like ░░░░░░░░ Sondland who s very ░░░░░░░░ and you know obviously ░░░░░░░░ person who has a ░░░░░░░░ he cares about is ░░░░░░░░ he s willing to ░░░░░░░░ any risk at all ░░░░░░░░ I just remember I ░░░░░░░░ picturing the Iran contra ░░░░░░░░ and how many times ░░░░░░░░ phrase I do not ░░░░░░░░ was uttered And in ░░░░░░░░ end no big legal ░░░░░░░░ That s a very ░░░░░░░░ point So in terms ░░░░░░░░ the law here Elizabeth ░░░░░░░░ was asking one of ░░░░░░░░ guests last hour can ░░░░░░░░ White House be legally ░░░░░░░░ to turn over apparently ░░░░░░░░ e mails that The ░░░░░░░░ Street Journal got showing ░░░░░░░░ between Mulvaney and Rick ░░░░░░░░ keeping them abreast of ░░░░░░░░ these investigations were actually ░░░░░░░░ anywhere And our guests ░░░░░░░░ up Nixon and U ░░░░░░░░ V Nixon in the ░░░░░░░░ Court ultimately saying those ░░░░░░░░ have to be turned ░░░░░░░░ but wasn t it ░░░░░░░░ little bit different because ░░░░░░░░ was in the defense ░░░░░░░░ someone else That was ░░░░░░░░ the context of a ░░░░░░░░ case And defending someone ░░░░░░░░ Correct So the Supreme ░░░░░░░░ said the criminal process ░░░░░░░░ precedence over the president ░░░░░░░░ claim of executive privilege ░░░░░░░░ the Supreme Court say ░░░░░░░░ impeachment process takes precedence ░░░░░░░░ believe they would have ░░░░░░░░ but the problem is ░░░░░░░░ to the Supreme Court ░░░░░░░░ take many many many ░░░░░░░░ And I think the ░░░░░░░░ can infer and the ░░░░░░░░ people can infer that ░░░░░░░░ the president is not ░░░░░░░░ over the documents if ░░░░░░░░ s telling his top ░░░░░░░░ you can t talk ░░░░░░░░ anybody what the inference ░░░░░░░░ he s covering up ░░░░░░░░ hiding And that s ░░░░░░░░ understands that So I ░░░░░░░░ he s got a ░░░░░░░░ from that We re ░░░░░░░░ asking people to do ░░░░░░░░ that s crazy the ░░░░░░░░ people Just infer with ░░░░░░░░ president you have information ░░░░░░░░ top aides know you ░░░░░░░░ documents Show them Nancy ░░░░░░░░ said that Come and ░░░░░░░░ The refusal to do ░░░░░░░░ and blocking people sends ░░░░░░░░ big message But Ron ░░░░░░░░ the fact is this ░░░░░░░░ a president who that ░░░░░░░░ not that s a ░░░░░░░░ not a bug of ░░░░░░░░ approach to a whole ░░░░░░░░ of things Whether it ░░░░░░░░ his tax returns or ░░░░░░░░ the details of a ░░░░░░░░ appointment this weekend that ░░░░░░░░ American people have a ░░░░░░░░ to know about And ░░░░░░░░ you you know he ░░░░░░░░ got a firewall among ░░░░░░░░ CNN s latest polling ░░░░░░░░ his approval going up ░░░░░░░░ Republicans at least since ░░░░░░░░ impeachment hearing began It ░░░░░░░░ like politically at least ░░░░░░░░ his perspective it s ░░░░░░░░ strategy that s working ░░░░░░░░ it s a strategy ░░░░░░░░ when all you have ░░░░░░░░ a hammer everything looks ░░░░░░░░ a nail The president ░░░░░░░░ response to every challenge ░░░░░░░░ to kind of Double ░░░░░░░░ on mobilizing his base ░░░░░░░░ that you know that ░░░░░░░░ produced a kind of ░░░░░░░░ solid wall of support ░░░░░░░░ his core constituencies of ░░░░░░░░ non college and non ░░░░░░░░ white voters which in ░░░░░░░░ has made it very ░░░░░░░░ for Republicans to break ░░░░░░░░ him But he does ░░░░░░░░ the reality that there ░░░░░░░░ a broader public that ░░░░░░░░ also hearing this And ░░░░░░░░ t forget even in ░░░░░░░░ we did not reach ░░░░░░░░ support for Nixon s ░░░░░░░░ and removal until the ░░░░░░░░ final poll until he ░░░░░░░░ office in August 1974 ░░░░░░░░ we re up to ░░░░░░░░ 50 now in public ░░░░░░░░ and about 60 consistently ░░░░░░░░ that what the president ░░░░░░░░ in Ukraine was wrong ░░░░░░░░ there are advantages for ░░░░░░░░ in the approach that ░░░░░░░░ s taken in terms ░░░░░░░░ solidifying the Republican Party ░░░░░░░░ as we saw in ░░░░░░░░ Jim and again in ░░░░░░░░ election in Louisiana and ░░░░░░░░ and Virginia there are ░░░░░░░░ voters out there including ░░░░░░░░ Republican leaning voters in ░░░░░░░░ collar suburbs that are ░░░░░░░░ away from the party ░░░░░░░░ substantially largely around their ░░░░░░░░ of the way he ░░░░░░░░ comporting himself in office ░░░░░░░░ how that converts in ░░░░░░░░ swing states But we ░░░░░░░░ got a long way ░░░░░░░░ go.