Cay Johnston on Kushner Tax Report: ‘Congress Treats Real Estate Better than Any Other Industry’

BERMAN A new report ░░░░░░░░ The New York Times ░░░░░░░░ how Jared Kushner has ░░░░░░░░ using a legal tax ░░░░░░░░ managed to pay nearly ░░░░░░░░ federal income taxes for ░░░░░░░░ past five to eight ░░░░░░░░ Joining us now is ░░░░░░░░ reporter David Cay Johnston ░░░░░░░░ s the author of ░░░░░░░░ s Even Worse Than ░░░░░░░░ Think What the Trump ░░░░░░░░ is Doing to America ░░░░░░░░ thanks so much for ░░░░░░░░ with us This is ░░░░░░░░ an issue of the ░░░░░░░░ estate business which Jared ░░░░░░░░ and his family and ░░░░░░░░ the president and his ░░░░░░░░ have been deeply involved ░░░░░░░░ for decades But basically ░░░░░░░░ suggests The New York ░░░░░░░░ going over documents that ░░░░░░░░ Kushner probably didn t ░░░░░░░░ any income taxes because ░░░░░░░░ essentially said he had ░░░░░░░░ estate losses every year ░░░░░░░░ JOHNSTON Correct And you ░░░░░░░░ I a tax lawyer ░░░░░░░░ another big real estate ░░░░░░░░ once said to me ░░░░░░░░ you re big in ░░░░░░░░ estate you re paying ░░░░░░░░ taxes you should sue ░░░░░░░░ lawyer for malpractice because ░░░░░░░░ treats real estate better ░░░░░░░░ any other industry in ░░░░░░░░ taxes legally BERMAN And ░░░░░░░░ I should let me ░░░░░░░░ out loud what Abbie ░░░░░░░░ the attorney for Jared ░░░░░░░░ says The documents were ░░░░░░░░ in violation of the ░░░░░░░░ and standard business confidentiality ░░░░░░░░ However always following the ░░░░░░░░ of numerous attorneys and ░░░░░░░░ Mr Kushner properly filed ░░░░░░░░ paid all taxes due ░░░░░░░░ the law and regulations ░░░░░░░░ saying the law was ░░░░░░░░ here But average Americans ░░░░░░░░ look at this and ░░░░░░░░ that s not quite ░░░░░░░░ that law that allows ░░░░░░░░ making millions if not ░░░░░░░░ not to pay income ░░░░░░░░ JOHNSTON Oh absolutely If ░░░░░░░░ re a homeowner more ░░░░░░░░ half of the homeowners ░░░░░░░░ this country do not ░░░░░░░░ to deduct mortgage interest ░░░░░░░░ their property taxes But ░░░░░░░░ you buy a building ░░░░░░░░ no money down a ░░░░░░░░ building and you can ░░░░░░░░ that if you re ░░░░░░░░ well established person in ░░░░░░░░ estate you get to ░░░░░░░░ off the entire building ░░░░░░░░ offset your other income ░░░░░░░░ your deduction for the ░░░░░░░░ for the building is ░░░░░░░░ million and your income ░░░░░░░░ 20 million you pay ░░░░░░░░ income tax and you ░░░░░░░░ 5 million to use ░░░░░░░░ the future And that ░░░░░░░░ what The Times shows ░░░░░░░░ Jared Kushner did from ░░░░░░░░ documents he had And ░░░░░░░░ s no reason for ░░░░░░░░ by the way We ░░░░░░░░ t have a shortage ░░░░░░░░ real estate in this ░░░░░░░░ Imagine if we applied ░░░░░░░░ rules however to manufacturing ░░░░░░░░ we d have a ░░░░░░░░ robust manufacturing center BERMAN ░░░░░░░░ s interesting there was ░░░░░░░░ giant new tax law ░░░░░░░░ a year ago which ░░░░░░░░ a lot of loopholes ░░░░░░░░ a lot of people ░░░░░░░░ many of these real ░░░░░░░░ loopholes were closed David ░░░░░░░░ It expanded not only ░░░░░░░░ but gave expanded benefits ░░░░░░░░ private jets and many ░░░░░░░░ are going to discover ░░░░░░░░ winter and spring as ░░░░░░░░ have their taxes done ░░░░░░░░ do them themselves that ░░░░░░░░ will be paying more ░░░░░░░░ because they can t ░░░░░░░░ deductions they used to ░░░░░░░░ and other things The ░░░░░░░░ closings not so much ░░░░░░░░ think that s been ░░░░░░░░ But this is a ░░░░░░░░ change in the law ░░░░░░░░ which about 80 percent ░░░░░░░░ the benefits go to ░░░░░░░░ 1 percent and half ░░░░░░░░ them to people who ░░░░░░░░ 2 million a year ░░░░░░░░ up That s the ░░░░░░░░ in a thousand best ░░░░░░░░ families in America BERMAN ░░░░░░░░ point I was making ░░░░░░░░ was this deduction for ░░░░░░░░ estate loss That was ░░░░░░░░ much protected That was ░░░░░░░░ touched JOHNSTON Oh absolutely ░░░░░░░░ The real estate loss ░░░░░░░░ protected and in some ░░░░░░░░ enhanced And in addition ░░░░░░░░ s almost no enforcement ░░░░░░░░ a common area of ░░░░░░░░ estate cheating called 231 ░░░░░░░░ that I ve written ░░░░░░░░ for 21 years or ░░░░░░░░ The government knows how ░░░░░░░░ catch these people and ░░░░░░░░ there is no effort ░░░░░░░░ any of the states ░░░░░░░░ the IRS to pursue ░░░░░░░░ form of cheating that ░░░░░░░░ the government I would ░░░░░░░░ several billion dollars a ░░░░░░░░ BERMAN So Jared Kushner ░░░░░░░░ president s son in ░░░░░░░░ and senior adviser a ░░░░░░░░ beneficiary of this tax ░░░░░░░░ Safe to assume that ░░░░░░░░ Trump over the years ░░░░░░░░ been as well JOHNSTON ░░░░░░░░ absolutely I so this ░░░░░░░░ not a loophole This ░░░░░░░░ declared policy of Congress ░░░░░░░░ Right JOHNSTON However Donald ░░░░░░░░ Donald Trump remember used ░░░░░░░░ illegal tax shelter one ░░░░░░░░ was shut down by ░░░░░░░░ within weeks the Republicans ░░░░░░░░ it down within weeks ░░░░░░░░ learning about it But ░░░░░░░░ is usually the case ░░░░░░░░ they find a tax ░░░░░░░░ if you already got ░░░░░░░░ they let you keep ░░░░░░░░ ill gotten gains BERMAN ░░░░░░░░ of course you bring ░░░░░░░░ the other New York ░░░░░░░░ report which does say ░░░░░░░░ the president committed fraud ░░░░░░░░ used that word fraud ░░░░░░░░ the years to not ░░░░░░░░ certain taxes As we ░░░░░░░░ to the midterm elections ░░░░░░░░ the Democrats take control ░░░░░░░░ even just the House ░░░░░░░░ Representatives do you think ░░░░░░░░ they will seek to ░░░░░░░░ their hands on tax ░░░░░░░░ of the president to ░░░░░░░░ into this more Maybe ░░░░░░░░ Jared Kushner to shine ░░░░░░░░ light on this more ░░░░░░░░ Congress has had the ░░░░░░░░ for forever to get ░░░░░░░░ returns They will pull ░░░░░░░░ tax returns You ll ░░░░░░░░ a thorough investigation They ░░░░░░░░ not just going to ░░░░░░░░ them out in the ░░░░░░░░ record They re going ░░░░░░░░ conduct a thorough investigation ░░░░░░░░ because of the way ░░░░░░░░ estate records are kept ░░░░░░░░ best area to cheat ░░░░░░░░ you do want to ░░░░░░░░ is in real estate ░░░░░░░░ don t want to ░░░░░░░░ it in many other ░░░░░░░░ because there are electronic ░░░░░░░░ that track your money ░░░░░░░░ Missed my calling All ░░░░░░░░ David Cay Johnston thanks ░░░░░░░░ much for being with ░░░░░░░░ Do appreciate it sir ░░░░░░░░ Thank you BERMAN We ░░░░░░░░ got all kinds of ░░░░░░░░ news this morning The ░░░░░░░░ just weighing in on ░░░░░░░░ controversy over Saudi Arabia ░░░░░░░░ the journalist there and ░░░░░░░░ Warren all but declaring ░░░░░░░░ think that she is ░░░░░░░░ for president Much more ░░░░░░░░