GARNER

WAGNER Professor Dyson we ░░░░░░░░ been thinking about you ░░░░░░░░ week You had a ░░░░░░░░ big article in The ░░░░░░░░ York Times on Sunday ░░░░░░░░ about our national response ░░░░░░░░ this I thought what ░░░░░░░░ Davidson wrote in the ░░░░░░░░ Yorker today was particularly ░░░░░░░░ as we were discussing ░░░░░░░░ contends that the central ░░░░░░░░ in the cases like ░░░░░░░░ is a failure to ░░░░░░░░ value black lives But ░░░░░░░░ should also ask about ░░░░░░░░ companion problem an over ░░░░░░░░ of white intentions Officer ░░░░░░░░ says that he didn ░░░░░░░░ want to kill anyone ░░░░░░░░ Wilson was scared Each ░░░░░░░░ them might still have ░░░░░░░░ charged with a crime ░░░░░░░░ There s no question ░░░░░░░░ the overweighting of white ░░░░░░░░ suggests that the exclusive ░░░░░░░░ of deciding a moral ░░░░░░░░ or legal effect of ░░░░░░░░ particular act depends upon ░░░░░░░░ the white person intended ░░░░░░░░ in this case the ░░░░░░░░ police officer You know ░░░░░░░░ pastor told me when ░░░░░░░░ was a child a ░░░░░░░░ doesn t intend to ░░░░░░░░ you anything it intends ░░░░░░░░ extract blood from you ░░░░░░░░ it may give you ░░░░░░░░ So there s no ░░░░░░░░ to one correlation between ░░░░░░░░ and consequentiality What you ░░░░░░░░ to do may not ░░░░░░░░ what ends up happening ░░░░░░░░ white intentions are not ░░░░░░░░ the problem it s ░░░░░░░░ absolving of white culpability ░░░░░░░░ responsibility by referring to ░░░░░░░░ intention That s part ░░░░░░░░ the problem as Ms ░░░░░░░░ is suggesting there and ░░░░░░░░ think we really have ░░░░░░░░ wrestle with that WAGNER ░░░░░░░░ Ta Nehisi Coates tweet ░░░░░░░░ mean this is the ░░░░░░░░ that so many people ░░░░░░░░ re tweeted This isn ░░░░░░░░ the fault of the ░░░░░░░░ Police act at the ░░░░░░░░ s behest Police don ░░░░░░░░ need retraining America needs ░░░░░░░░ MCGHEE I mean he ░░░░░░░░ right in the sense ░░░░░░░░ this all begun with ░░░░░░░░ who is not a ░░░░░░░░ officer with George Zimmerman ░░░░░░░░ The national attention to ░░░░░░░░ issue And what that ░░░░░░░░ turned on and what ░░░░░░░░ many cases end up ░░░░░░░░ on is whether or ░░░░░░░░ it was reasonable for ░░░░░░░░ person to be afraid ░░░░░░░░ a black person That ░░░░░░░░ been one of the ░░░░░░░░ premises of our entire ░░░░░░░░ since slavery is the ░░░░░░░░ of black people and ░░░░░░░░ the black men WAGNER ░░░░░░░░ to use that to ░░░░░░░░ crime MCGHEE Right If ░░░░░░░░ s the standard then ░░░░░░░░ can see how frustrating ░░░░░░░░ is for African Americans ░░░░░░░░ say what more can ░░░░░░░░ do if I m ░░░░░░░░ going to be judged ░░░░░░░░ whether it s reasonable ░░░░░░░░ someone to hold to ░░░░░░░░ against me WAGNER So ░░░░░░░░ Dyson how do we ░░░░░░░░ America I mean how ░░░░░░░░ just seems so insurmountable ░░░░░░░░ times like this I ░░░░░░░░ this is something that ░░░░░░░░ Americans have lived with ░░░░░░░░ the founding of the ░░░░░░░░ So what is the ░░░░░░░░ of the process of ░░░░░░░░ DYSON Well you ve ░░░░░░░░ to have a bifocal ░░░░░░░░ here don t you ░░░░░░░░ have to look at ░░░░░░░░ big picture and the ░░░░░░░░ kind of change you ░░░░░░░░ to have which is ░░░░░░░░ you talk about conversations ░░░░░░░░ race on gender on ░░░░░░░░ orientation You speak about ░░░░░░░░ nation s democracy and ░░░░░░░░ democratic traditions and energies ░░░░░░░░ have people constantly trying ░░░░░░░░ argue back and forth ░░░░░░░░ the future of this ░░░░░░░░ while being governed by ░░░░░░░░ of justice But you ░░░░░░░░ got to focus on ░░░░░░░░ small stuff too which ░░░░░░░░ interactions between police departments ░░░░░░░░ its citizens and in ░░░░░░░░ America retraining it it ░░░░░░░░ at the level of ░░░░░░░░ It happens with parents ░░░░░░░░ happens with the will ░░░░░░░░ desire to want to ░░░░░░░░ this change But here ░░░░░░░░ what I m afraid ░░░░░░░░ Not until something happens ░░░░░░░░ the broader white America ░░░░░░░░ it become a problem ░░░░░░░░ enough for the majority ░░░░░░░░ Americans to take seriously ░░░░░░░░ what I mean here ░░░░░░░░ that when this pain ░░░░░░░░ to be shared in ░░░░░░░░ broader community when young ░░░░░░░░ say for instance who ░░░░░░░░ meth labs on college ░░░░░░░░ are granted implicit immunity ░░░░░░░░ up getting shot by ░░░░░░░░ police you can darn ░░░░░░░░ right then that this ░░░░░░░░ going to be a ░░░░░░░░ This has to be ░░░░░░░░ shared by others and ░░░░░░░░ have to have a ░░░░░░░░ of empathy Martin Luther ░░░░░░░░ Jr said Look I ░░░░░░░░ not Russian but if ░░░░░░░░ were in Russia and ░░░░░░░░ problems were problems were ░░░░░░░░ on in Russia I ░░░░░░░░ speak out I m ░░░░░░░░ Catholic but I would ░░░░░░░░ out We have to ░░░░░░░░ out and to have ░░░░░░░░ masses of American people ░░░░░░░░ imagine themselves as black ░░░░░░░░ as much as they ░░░░░░░░ to generate empathy to ░░░░░░░░ they must speak up ░░░░░░░░ they must demand changes ░░░░░░░░ their own communities to ░░░░░░░░ along with what s ░░░░░░░░ And I thought De ░░░░░░░░ yesterday by saying black ░░░░░░░░ and brown lives matter ░░░░░░░░ a big difference because ░░░░░░░░ that language gets repeated ░░░░░░░░ white tongues white brains ░░░░░░░░ follow suit and white ░░░░░░░░ can at least be ░░░░░░░░ in a different way ░░░░░░░░ Yes That s a ░░░░░░░░ good point and even ░░░░░░░░ footage of protestors being ░░░░░░░░ folks and black folks ░░░░░░░░ Asian folks out there ░░░░░░░░ the street It s ░░░░░░░░ pretty basic but that ░░░░░░░░ really important.”