NATO’s Rutte in the U.K.: If You Don’t Raise Taxes, Slash Health Care, and Send Money to Zelenskyy ‘You Better Learn to Speak Russian’

A very warm welcome ░░░░░░░░ Chattam House I m ░░░░░░░░ Maddox I m the ░░░░░░░░ of Chattam House We ░░░░░░░░ delighted to be having ░░░░░░░░ conversation today with NATO ░░░░░░░░ General Mark Rut on ░░░░░░░░ a better NATO As ░░░░░░░░ very well know he ░░░░░░░░ been in that role ░░░░░░░░ something over a year ░░░░░░░░ was for 14 years ░░░░░░░░ prime minister of the ░░░░░░░░ the longest serving to ░░░░░░░░ And a prime ministership ░░░░░░░░ really encapsulated the views ░░░░░░░░ he s come to ░░░░░░░░ as head of NATO ░░░░░░░░ the need for countries ░░░░░░░░ work together and I ░░░░░░░░ uh that is what ░░░░░░░░ re going to hear ░░░░░░░░ more of today Um ░░░░░░░░ s going to give ░░░░░░░░ some short opening remarks ░░░░░░░░ m then going to ░░░░░░░░ some questions Get your ░░░░░░░░ ready as we will ░░░░░░░░ good time for those ░░░░░░░░ someone putting up their ░░░░░░░░ already Thank you Maybe ░░░░░░░░ quite that ready Um ░░░░░░░░ uh I will try ░░░░░░░░ get in as many ░░░░░░░░ I can and just ░░░░░░░░ case you re in ░░░░░░░░ doubt it is being ░░░░░░░░ and is on the ░░░░░░░░ Secretary General very warm ░░░░░░░░ Thank you Applause Well ░░░░░░░░ you uh for the ░░░░░░░░ Bman Uh and it ░░░░░░░░ a pleasure to be ░░░░░░░░ at Chattam House which ░░░░░░░░ still one of the ░░░░░░░░ s leading think tanks ░░░░░░░░ on international affairs So ░░░░░░░░ s a real honor ░░░░░░░░ be here It has ░░░░░░░░ producing influential ideas for ░░░░░░░░ than a century and ░░░░░░░░ is a place where ░░░░░░░░ want to share the ░░░░░░░░ to build a better ░░░░░░░░ This plan will be ░░░░░░░░ the heart of our ░░░░░░░░ in the hake I ░░░░░░░░ to thank the United ░░░░░░░░ for more than seven ░░░░░░░░ of continuous commitment to ░░░░░░░░ It makes vital contributions ░░░░░░░░ our shared security The ░░░░░░░░ Army leads NATO s ░░░░░░░░ force in Estonia RAF ░░░░░░░░ are patrolling over Poland ░░░░░░░░ as part of NATO ░░░░░░░░ air policing mission NATO ░░░░░░░░ Maritime Command in North ░░░░░░░░ our naval operations and ░░░░░░░░ Navy ships protect the ░░░░░░░░ with a NATO first ░░░░░░░░ at its core I ░░░░░░░░ warmly welcome the U ░░░░░░░░ s new strategic defense ░░░░░░░░ It will strengthen and ░░░░░░░░ Britain s armed forces ░░░░░░░░ enhance NATO s collective ░░░░░░░░ Commitment has a cost ░░░░░░░░ I welcome that the ░░░░░░░░ K government will spend ░░░░░░░░ more on defense in ░░░░░░░░ future I know we ░░░░░░░░ count on the United ░░░░░░░░ as we start the ░░░░░░░░ chapter for NATO In ░░░░░░░░ two weeks I will ░░░░░░░░ the NATO summit of ░░░░░░░░ leaders in the H ░░░░░░░░ this summit will transform ░░░░░░░░ alliance We will build ░░░░░░░░ better NATO one that ░░░░░░░░ stronger fairer and more ░░░░░░░░ so that we can ░░░░░░░░ to keep our people ░░░░░░░░ and our adversaries at ░░░░░░░░ Because of Russia war ░░░░░░░░ returned to Europe We ░░░░░░░░ face the threat of ░░░░░░░░ and fierce global competition ░░░░░░░░ has teamed up with ░░░░░░░░ North Korea and Iran ░░░░░░░░ re expanding their militaries ░░░░░░░░ their capabilities Putin s ░░░░░░░░ machine is speeding up ░░░░░░░░ slowing down Russia is ░░░░░░░░ its forces with Chinese ░░░░░░░░ and producing more weapons ░░░░░░░░ than we thought In ░░░░░░░░ of ammunition Russia produces ░░░░░░░░ three months what the ░░░░░░░░ of NATO produces in ░░░░░░░░ year And its defense ░░░░░░░░ base is expected to ░░░░░░░░ out 1 500 tanks ░░░░░░░░ 000 armored vehicles and ░░░░░░░░ Iscander missiles this year ░░░░░░░░ Russia could be ready ░░░░░░░░ use military force against ░░░░░░░░ within 5 years Five ░░░░░░░░ Let s not kid ░░░░░░░░ We are all on ░░░░░░░░ eastern flank now The ░░░░░░░░ generation of Russian missiles ░░░░░░░░ at many times the ░░░░░░░░ of sound The distance ░░░░░░░░ European capitals is only ░░░░░░░░ matter of minutes There ░░░░░░░░ no longer east or ░░░░░░░░ There is just NATO ░░░░░░░░ is also modernizing and ░░░░░░░░ its military at breakneck ░░░░░░░░ It already has the ░░░░░░░░ s largest navy and ░░░░░░░░ battle force is expected ░░░░░░░░ grow to 435 ships ░░░░░░░░ 2030 China is also ░░░░░░░░ up its nuclear arsenal ░░░░░░░░ it aims to have ░░░░░░░░ than 1 000 operational ░░░░░░░░ warheads also by 2030 ░░░░░░░░ who stand against freedom ░░░░░░░░ democracy are digging in ░░░░░░░░ for long term confrontation ░░░░░░░░ trying to dominate and ░░░░░░░░ us In 1936 Winston ░░░░░░░░ posed this question during ░░░░░░░░ debate in the House ░░░░░░░░ Commons Will there be ░░░░░░░░ to put our defenses ░░░░░░░░ order Will there be ░░░░░░░░ to make these necessary ░░░░░░░░ Or will the awful ░░░░░░░░ too late be recorded ░░░░░░░░ that is the question ░░░░░░░░ NATO now History has ░░░░░░░░ us that to preserve ░░░░░░░░ we must prepare for ░░░░░░░░ Wishful thinking will not ░░░░░░░░ us safe We cannot ░░░░░░░░ away the danger Hope ░░░░░░░░ not a strategy So ░░░░░░░░ has to become a ░░░░░░░░ fairer and more lethal ░░░░░░░░ A stronger NATO means ░░░░░░░░ much more on our ░░░░░░░░ All allies will reach ░░░░░░░░ initial target of spending ░░░░░░░░ of GDP on defense ░░░░░░░░ year That was a ░░░░░░░░ made way back in ░░░░░░░░ Now we have a ░░░░░░░░ plan for the future ░░░░░░░░ know what we need ░░░░░░░░ we know what to ░░░░░░░░ At the summit in ░░░░░░░░ Hake I expect allied ░░░░░░░░ will agree to spend ░░░░░░░░ of GDP on defense ░░░░░░░░ will be a NATOwide ░░░░░░░░ and a defining moment ░░░░░░░░ the alliance There are ░░░░░░░░ parts to this new ░░░░░░░░ spending plan 3 5 ░░░░░░░░ be invested in our ░░░░░░░░ military requirements while the ░░░░░░░░ will go towards defense ░░░░░░░░ security related investments including ░░░░░░░░ and building industrial capacity ░░░░░░░░ is not some figure ░░░░░░░░ from the air It ░░░░░░░░ grounded in hard facts ░░░░░░░░ fact is we need ░░░░░░░░ quantum leap in our ░░░░░░░░ defense The fact is ░░░░░░░░ must have more forces ░░░░░░░░ capabilities to implement our ░░░░░░░░ plans in full The ░░░░░░░░ is danger will not ░░░░░░░░ even when the war ░░░░░░░░ Ukraine ends Our decisions ░░░░░░░░ defense spending are driven ░░░░░░░░ NATO s battle plans ░░░░░░░░ capability targets They define ░░░░░░░░ forces and capabilities allies ░░░░░░░░ to provide And last ░░░░░░░░ NATO defense ministers agreed ░░░░░░░░ new targets The exact ░░░░░░░░ are classified but we ░░░░░░░░ a 400 increase in ░░░░░░░░ and missile defense We ░░░░░░░░ in Ukraine how Russia ░░░░░░░░ terror from above So ░░░░░░░░ will strengthen the shield ░░░░░░░░ protects our skies Our ░░░░░░░░ also need thousands more ░░░░░░░░ vehicles and tanks millions ░░░░░░░░ artillery shells and we ░░░░░░░░ double our enabling capabilities ░░░░░░░░ as logistics supply transportation ░░░░░░░░ medical support Allies will ░░░░░░░░ in more warships and ░░░░░░░░ To give just one ░░░░░░░░ America s allies will ░░░░░░░░ at least 700 F ░░░░░░░░ fighter jets in total ░░░░░░░░ will also invest in ░░░░░░░░ drones and longrange missile ░░░░░░░░ and invest more in ░░░░░░░░ and cyber capabilities It ░░░░░░░░ clear if we do ░░░░░░░░ invest more our collective ░░░░░░░░ is not credible Spending ░░░░░░░░ is not about pleasing ░░░░░░░░ audience of one It ░░░░░░░░ about protecting 1 billion ░░░░░░░░ Allies will also make ░░░░░░░░ defense and security related ░░░░░░░░ including infrastructure Roads rail ░░░░░░░░ ports are just as ░░░░░░░░ as tanks fighters and ░░░░░░░░ We need civilian transport ░░░░░░░░ that can support mobility ░░░░░░░░ mobility to get the ░░░░░░░░ forces to the right ░░░░░░░░ at the right time ░░░░░░░░ home front and the ░░░░░░░░ line are now one ░░░░░░░░ the same War is ░░░░░░░░ longer fought at a ░░░░░░░░ Our societies and militaries ░░░░░░░░ in this together We ░░░░░░░░ invest more in civil ░░░░░░░░ so our societies are ░░░░░░░░ for the day we ░░░░░░░░ will never come And ░░░░░░░░ works 24 7 to ░░░░░░░░ that day never arrives ░░░░░░░░ will also spend more ░░░░░░░░ protect our societies against ░░░░░░░░ attacks sabotage and other ░░░░░░░░ And broader defense s ░░░░░░░░ related investments should include ░░░░░░░░ and capital improvements to ░░░░░░░░ defense industrial base It ░░░░░░░░ clear that right across ░░░░░░░░ alliance we are not ░░░░░░░░ enough So as we ░░░░░░░░ defense investment we need ░░░░░░░░ increase defense production More ░░░░░░░░ means increasing supply not ░░░░░░░░ prices And it also ░░░░░░░░ ensuring that the alliance ░░░░░░░░ produce at scale and ░░░░░░░░ speed We need raw ░░░░░░░░ capacity like Sheffield Force ░░░░░░░░ which I visited this ░░░░░░░░ with defense secretary John ░░░░░░░░ We need cheaper electricity ░░░░░░░░ to critical minerals and ░░░░░░░░ engineering knowhow Otherwise the ░░░░░░░░ to spend 5 of ░░░░░░░░ on defense will be ░░░░░░░░ to production costs rather ░░░░░░░░ invested in defense So ░░░░░░░░ will enhance and expand ░░░░░░░░ industrial base right across ░░░░░░░░ alliance We will support ░░░░░░░░ defense production remove barriers ░░░░░░░░ cooperation and harness cutting ░░░░░░░░ technologies To borrow from ░░░░░░░░ former Labour Prime Minister ░░░░░░░░ Wilson I want NATO ░░░░░░░░ forge its future in ░░░░░░░░ right heat of innovation ░░░░░░░░ stay ahead of our ░░░░░░░░ we must develop and ░░░░░░░░ new technologies They can ░░░░░░░░ cost effective and deliver ░░░░░░░░ same effect as traditional ░░░░░░░░ heavy metal On the ░░░░░░░░ of Ukraine 400 drones ░░░░░░░░ the right way are ░░░░░░░░ out 2 million Russian ░░░░░░░░ More defense spending and ░░░░░░░░ provides effective deterrence promotes ░░░░░░░░ growth and creates jobs ░░░░░░░░ summit in the H ░░░░░░░░ send a clear demand ░░░░░░░░ to industry and industry ░░░░░░░░ meet our ambition So ░░░░░░░░ will make NATO stronger ░░░░░░░░ spending and producing more ░░░░░░░░ we will make NATO ░░░░░░░░ by rebalancing the burden ░░░░░░░░ our security with every ░░░░░░░░ contributing their fair share ░░░░░░░░ all benefit from the ░░░░░░░░ our transatlantic alliance provides ░░░░░░░░ it is vital that ░░░░░░░░ member of NATO pulls ░░░░░░░░ weight because America has ░░░░░░░░ too much of the ░░░░░░░░ for too long America ░░░░░░░░ allies have broad shoulders ░░░░░░░░ Europe and Canada will ░░░░░░░░ more for our shared ░░░░░░░░ and that will be ░░░░░░░░ by America s rocksolid ░░░░░░░░ to NATO As well ░░░░░░░░ becoming stronger and fairer ░░░░░░░░ will become more lethal ░░░░░░░░ assured we will always ░░░░░░░░ a defensive alliance Becoming ░░░░░░░░ lethal means strengthening our ░░░░░░░░ and defense posture providing ░░░░░░░░ militaries with what they ░░░░░░░░ to keep us safe ░░░░░░░░ showing any aggressor we ░░░░░░░░ and will hit back ░░░░░░░░ With our military power ░░░░░░░░ our resolve to use ░░░░░░░░ if necessary no one ░░░░░░░░ even think about attacking ░░░░░░░░ President Putin does not ░░░░░░░░ like someone who is ░░░░░░░░ in peace Russia continues ░░░░░░░░ strike civilian targets in ░░░░░░░░ day after day night ░░░░░░░░ night This is violence ░░░░░░░░ the sake of violence ░░░░░░░░ fully support President Trump ░░░░░░░░ efforts to stop the ░░░░░░░░ The people of Ukraine ░░░░░░░░ a just and lasting ░░░░░░░░ NATO s practical and ░░░░░░░░ support to Ukraine continues ░░░░░░░░ long term support is ░░░░░░░░ about prolonging the war ░░░░░░░░ is about helping Ukraine ░░░░░░░░ itself today and preventing ░░░░░░░░ future aggression NATO stands ░░░░░░░░ Ukraine now and through ░░░░░░░░ challenges ahead In an ░░░░░░░░ of uncertainty a strong ░░░░░░░░ bond is essential And ░░░░░░░░ enduring commitment by all ░░░░░░░░ allies to Article 5 ░░░░░░░░ an attack on one ░░░░░░░░ an attack on all ░░░░░░░░ a powerful message We ░░░░░░░░ defend against any threat ░░░░░░░░ any direction History has ░░░░░░░░ that North America and ░░░░░░░░ working together is a ░░░░░░░░ combination The venue for ░░░░░░░░ summit in the H ░░░░░░░░ on Churchill plank Churchill ░░░░░░░░ His bulldog spirit is ░░░░░░░░ today in NATO We ░░░░░░░░ the confidence commitment and ░░░░░░░░ to do whatever it ░░░░░░░░ to protect our way ░░░░░░░░ life There are no ░░░░░░░░ chances when it comes ░░░░░░░░ our security So we ░░░░░░░░ deliver in the H ░░░░░░░░ can be Frank with ░░░░░░░░ other and there will ░░░░░░░░ tough decisions to take ░░░░░░░░ let us not lose ░░░░░░░░ of what is at ░░░░░░░░ The security of 1 ░░░░░░░░ people on both sides ░░░░░░░░ the Atlantic Together we ░░░░░░░░ secure peace through strength ░░░░░░░░ we will make our ░░░░░░░░ stronger fairer and more ░░░░░░░░ And together we will ░░░░░░░░ a better NATO Thank ░░░░░░░░ Thank you all very ░░░░░░░░ indeed And I m ░░░░░░░░ as my pad right ░░░░░░░░ But what I can ░░░░░░░░ to you today s ░░░░░░░░ of the world today ░░░░░░░░ is uh a large ░░░░░░░░ of which is dedicated ░░░░░░░░ only to NATO but ░░░░░░░░ making suggestions to the ░░░░░░░░ general as to what ░░░░░░░░ might do Thank you ░░░░░░░░ that speech Let me ░░░░░░░░ you um straight away ░░░░░░░░ ve used the word ░░░░░░░░ quite a bit What ░░░░░░░░ are you trying to ░░░░░░░░ through that The point ░░░░░░░░ want to make is ░░░░░░░░ we are still defensive ░░░░░░░░ but we are deadly ░░░░░░░░ that if anyone tries ░░░░░░░░ attack us that um ░░░░░░░░ consequences for that attacker ░░░░░░░░ be devastating be it ░░░░░░░░ or anyone else who ░░░░░░░░ to do anything against ░░░░░░░░ and we have to ░░░░░░░░ absolutely clear and this ░░░░░░░░ not only about the ░░░░░░░░ and the weaponry It ░░░░░░░░ also about the mentality ░░░░░░░░ we do realize that ░░░░░░░░ is a lot at ░░░░░░░░ here and our yeah ░░░░░░░░ people trying to act ░░░░░░░░ us must understand this ░░░░░░░░ what is the main ░░░░░░░░ to NATO members Is ░░░░░░░░ Russia which everyone in ░░░░░░░░ is very conscious of ░░░░░░░░ is it China which ░░░░░░░░ to be the focus ░░░░░░░░ the US s alarms ░░░░░░░░ the world The main ░░░░░░░░ term threat against NATO ░░░░░░░░ Russia There s no ░░░░░░░░ Um but you rightly ░░░░░░░░ there is more than ░░░░░░░░ and NATO was never ░░░░░░░░ to fight only the ░░░░░░░░ Union It was there ░░░░░░░░ protect NATO territory from ░░░░░░░░ who tried to attack ░░░░░░░░ And what we see ░░░░░░░░ the moment is an ░░░░░░░░ buildup in China of ░░░░░░░░ military capabilities I mentioned ░░░░░░░░ the speech including uh ░░░░░░░░ they do navywise They ░░░░░░░░ have in 2030 or ░░░░░░░░ more ships than US ░░░░░░░░ currently And they have ░░░░░░░░ um defense industrial base ░░░░░░░░ China to build even ░░░░░░░░ ships which the Americans ░░░░░░░░ this moment can absolutely ░░░░░░░░ compete with And this ░░░░░░░░ one of the big ░░░░░░░░ we have that when ░░░░░░░░ comes to defense spending ░░░░░░░░ is an issue with ░░░░░░░░ and Canada When it ░░░░░░░░ to defense production there ░░░░░░░░ an issue with Europe ░░░░░░░░ and the United States ░░░░░░░░ all over the alliance ░░░░░░░░ are not producing enough ░░░░░░░░ China is working together ░░░░░░░░ North Korea Iran They ░░░░░░░░ supporting as we all ░░░░░░░░ Russia s war effort ░░░░░░░░ Ukraine Um so these ░░░░░░░░ working together is of ░░░░░░░░ a relevant development So ░░░░░░░░ Russia but clearly also ░░░░░░░░ on what China is ░░░░░░░░ and of course the ░░░░░░░░ that these four are ░░░░░░░░ together and North Korea ░░░░░░░░ the latest technologies from ░░░░░░░░ and others in return ░░░░░░░░ their support uh to ░░░░░░░░ in the war effort ░░░░░░░░ Ukraine So in terms ░░░░░░░░ strategy it is uh ░░░░░░░░ is Russia it is ░░░░░░░░ and is the others ░░░░░░░░ with them All of ░░░░░░░░ Yeah So so NATO ░░░░░░░░ to protect its territory ░░░░░░░░ 1 billion people And ░░░░░░░░ course when you ask ░░░░░░░░ what is your first ░░░░░░░░ main threat long term ░░░░░░░░ is Russia Absolutely But ░░░░░░░░ have to be conscious ░░░░░░░░ what is happening and ░░░░░░░░ was visiting two months ░░░░░░░░ Japan speaking with the ░░░░░░░░ senior leadership there and ░░░░░░░░ course they are very ░░░░░░░░ about what s happening ░░░░░░░░ the Pacific They really ░░░░░░░░ um very much value ░░░░░░░░ relationship they have with ░░░░░░░░ That is also true ░░░░░░░░ Korea the Republic of ░░░░░░░░ for Australia for New ░░░░░░░░ the so called in ░░░░░░░░ Pacific four Um and ░░░░░░░░ and it shows you ░░░░░░░░ we cannot think that ░░░░░░░░ is one theater which ░░░░░░░░ the which is the ░░░░░░░░ Atlantic theater Yes of ░░░░░░░░ that s the main ░░░░░░░░ theater we are focusing ░░░░░░░░ But we have to ░░░░░░░░ conscious of the fact ░░░░░░░░ this is all interconnected ░░░░░░░░ what with what is ░░░░░░░░ in the Pacific and ░░░░░░░░ war in Ukraine Russia ░░░░░░░░ unprovoked war against Ukraine ░░░░░░░░ clearly shows that that ░░░░░░░░ these countries work together ░░░░░░░░ Can NATO survive a ░░░░░░░░ down of US uh ░░░░░░░░ in Europe and some ░░░░░░░░ the questions that the ░░░░░░░░ has directed at NATO ░░░░░░░░ its value Since President ░░░░░░░░ came in office um ░░░░░░░░ in the first couple ░░░░░░░░ weeks I got many ░░░░░░░░ from European leaders Will ░░░░░░░░ US stay committed to ░░░░░░░░ And I told them ░░░░░░░░ said well you might ░░░░░░░░ to put on your ░░░░░░░░ and listen to President ░░░░░░░░ when he has uh ░░░░░░░░ Mol in office or ░░░░░░░░ Minister Starmer or Prime ░░░░░░░░ Maloney when I was ░░░░░░░░ others with and and ░░░░░░░░ of course Chancellor Mertz ░░░░░░░░ there is a total ░░░░░░░░ uh from the American ░░░░░░░░ and down the whole ░░░░░░░░ to NATO but also ░░░░░░░░ expectation an expectation is ░░░░░░░░ we in Europe and ░░░░░░░░ will indeed equalize in ░░░░░░░░ with the US and ░░░░░░░░ have to do that ░░░░░░░░ only to equalize but ░░░░░░░░ need that 3 5 ░░░░░░░░ defense spending to be ░░░░░░░░ to deliver the capability ░░░░░░░░ Then there is the ░░░░░░░░ okay if they then ░░░░░░░░ mark with NATO might ░░░░░░░░ all of a sudden ░░░░░░░░ that Sakur should be ░░░░░░░░ European general and the ░░░░░░░░ allied commander which has ░░░░░░░░ always been an American ░░░░░░░░ general because there were ░░░░░░░░ rumors Well there s ░░░░░░░░ evidence Last week the ░░░░░░░░ was announced uh of ░░░░░░░░ new supreme allied commander ░░░░░░░░ holding an American passport ░░░░░░░░ the third question is ░░░░░░░░ they all of a ░░░░░░░░ withdraw troops from Europe ░░░░░░░░ s absolutely no question ░░░░░░░░ that of that what ░░░░░░░░ have said is that ░░░░░░░░ obviously for the United ░░░░░░░░ not only concentrating on ░░░░░░░░ Euro Atlantic but also ░░░░░░░░ the biggest worldwide economy ░░░░░░░░ the biggest defense power ░░░░░░░░ the world they also ░░░░░░░░ to of course focus ░░░░░░░░ the Indo Pacific we ░░░░░░░░ to focus on the ░░░░░░░░ East Uh and that ░░░░░░░░ time there will be ░░░░░░░░ more pivoting towards uh ░░░░░░░░ is ideological Uh I ░░░░░░░░ not worried about that ░░░░░░░░ I m absolutely convinced ░░░░░░░░ will do that in ░░░░░░░░ step by step approach ░░░░░░░░ will be no um ░░░░░░░░ gaps in Europe because ░░░░░░░░ this Um and there ░░░░░░░░ absolutely no and you ░░░░░░░░ seen it when again ░░░░░░░░ Merz visited the White ░░░░░░░░ when it came to ░░░░░░░░ American troops presence in ░░░░░░░░ and the clear commitment ░░░░░░░░ the American president on ░░░░░░░░ point So no capability ░░░░░░░░ in Europe Um over ░░░░░░░░ what period Um can ░░░░░░░░ say that immediately that ░░░░░░░░ US draw down won ░░░░░░░░ happen too fast for ░░░░░░░░ I think we can ░░░░░░░░ that uh the US ░░░░░░░░ President Trump has won ░░░░░░░░ argument that there has ░░░░░░░░ has been there for ░░░░░░░░ very long time about ░░░░░░░░ needing to spend more ░░░░░░░░ you ve embraced that ░░░░░░░░ what you ve said ░░░░░░░░ but he has also ░░░░░░░░ um a lot of ░░░░░░░░ things indeed about pivoting ░░░░░░░░ Asia We ll come ░░░░░░░░ to Ukraine in a ░░░░░░░░ but on the US ░░░░░░░░ perhaps having fewer troops ░░░░░░░░ in Europe um is ░░░░░░░░ not going to leave ░░░░░░░░ exposed at any point ░░░░░░░░ at all I have ░░░░░░░░ worry about that And ░░░░░░░░ not Because in the ░░░░░░░░ States with everybody I ░░░░░░░░ with in the Pentagon ░░░░░░░░ State Department in the ░░░░░░░░ House the president uh ░░░░░░░░ National Security Council people ░░░░░░░░ aware NATO is not ░░░░░░░░ there to again quote ░░░░░░░░ no not quote but ░░░░░░░░ to Churchill in his ░░░░░░░░ speech in uh the ░░░░░░░░ Congress in December 41 ░░░░░░░░ prevent the mistake after ░░░░░░░░ first world war again ░░░░░░░░ that then ongoing second ░░░░░░░░ war after Pearl Harbor ░░░░░░░░ he gave that speech ░░░░░░░░ the long arm of ░░░░░░░░ will reach out again ░░░░░░░░ the Atlantic Ocean to ░░░░░░░░ the new world involved ░░░░░░░░ a war in the ░░░░░░░░ world It s not ░░░░░░░░ because of that historical ░░░░░░░░ in the US all ░░░░░░░░ generals all the senior ░░░░░░░░ makers totally understand that ░░░░░░░░ the US homeland security ░░░░░░░░ the defense of the ░░░░░░░░ of the mainland US ░░░░░░░░ its territory uh a ░░░░░░░░ Atlantic a secure Arctic ░░░░░░░░ a secure Europe is ░░░░░░░░ Uh when the Norwegian ░░░░░░░░ minister was visiting he ░░░░░░░░ President Trump the pictures ░░░░░░░░ the nuclear submarines just ░░░░░░░░ the border between Norway ░░░░░░░░ Russia We sometimes forget ░░░░░░░░ Norway has all over ░░░░░░░░ and Finland this border ░░░░░░░░ Russia and there is ░░░░░░░░ big one of the ░░░░░░░░ maybe the biggest um ░░░░░░░░ submarine uh port And ░░░░░░░░ said Mr President these ░░░░░░░░ submarines are not there ░░░░░░░░ target Norway They are ░░░░░░░░ to target the United ░░░░░░░░ and what we do ░░░░░░░░ is make sure that ░░░░░░░░ can never do that ░░░░░░░░ that deep realization that ░░░░░░░░ security Europe Canada US ░░░░░░░░ interconnected practically so not ░░░░░░░░ for historical reasons but ░░░░░░░░ is deeply ingrained in ░░░░░░░░ US Um and at ░░░░░░░░ same time they have ░░░░░░░░ things to think about ░░░░░░░░ in the Pacific and ░░░░░░░░ and the Middle East ░░░░░░░░ sometimes also when it ░░░░░░░░ to Africa which is ░░░░░░░░ logical So respending more ░░░░░░░░ them to pivot more ░░░░░░░░ for example the in ░░░░░░░░ Pacific over time step ░░░░░░░░ step is possible What ░░░░░░░░ Ukraine itself Does it ░░░░░░░░ weaken NATO in some ░░░░░░░░ If the US president ░░░░░░░░ um look uh uh ░░░░░░░░ was part of the ░░░░░░░░ for Russia of this ░░░░░░░░ Ukraine started it and ░░░░░░░░ begins to talk uh ░░░░░░░░ ways of settling that ░░░░░░░░ seem to make many ░░░░░░░░ to Russia But look ░░░░░░░░ President Trump did since ░░░░░░░░ came in office He ░░░░░░░░ many things Well I ░░░░░░░░ I agree I agree ░░░░░░░░ he broke the deadlock ░░░░░░░░ it comes to Ukraine ░░░░░░░░ broke the deadlock with ░░░░░░░░ with Russia And I ░░░░░░░░ of the opinion that ░░░░░░░░ is only the American ░░░░░░░░ who was able to ░░░░░░░░ this to start the ░░░░░░░░ again with President Putin ░░░░░░░░ how to end this ░░░░░░░░ war And he did ░░░░░░░░ and no criticism of ░░░░░░░░ predecessor I respect all ░░░░░░░░ politicians in the US ░░░░░░░░ we work with everybody ░░░░░░░░ but him doing that ░░░░░░░░ that deadlock and starting ░░░░░░░░ dialogue with uh the ░░░░░░░░ president and then for ░░░░░░░░ in Europe to think ░░░░░░░░ we can in a ░░░░░░░░ of months then end ░░░░░░░░ of this of course ░░░░░░░░ this this takes time ░░░░░░░░ is a step by ░░░░░░░░ uh approach but it ░░░░░░░░ clear that he closely ░░░░░░░░ with European allies uh ░░░░░░░░ uh the U K ░░░░░░░░ minister and others here ░░░░░░░░ Europe and with Canada ░░░░░░░░ all the steps he ░░░░░░░░ taking and every phone ░░░░░░░░ he has with President ░░░░░░░░ He prepares with Europeans ░░░░░░░░ he then briefs out ░░░░░░░░ the Europeans and the ░░░░░░░░ afterwards But him doing ░░░░░░░░ I think is extremely ░░░░░░░░ because it is the ░░░░░░░░ way to step by ░░░░░░░░ bring the Russians to ░░░░░░░░ position where they want ░░░░░░░░ end it To end ░░░░░░░░ and not continue So ░░░░░░░░ in uh in your ░░░░░░░░ what would be the ░░░░░░░░ of that kind of ░░░░░░░░ that would persuade Russia ░░░░░░░░ stop where it it ░░░░░░░░ now or to move ░░░░░░░░ I I don t ░░░░░░░░ to to to make ░░░░░░░░ even more difficult by ░░░░░░░░ as secretary general start ░░░░░░░░ philosophize here in an ░░░░░░░░ session about what it ░░░░░░░░ look like But what ░░░░░░░░ do know and what ░░░░░░░░ all agree on is ░░░░░░░░ whatever the long term ░░░░░░░░ or even better a ░░░░░░░░ peace agreement will look ░░░░░░░░ the most important thing ░░░░░░░░ that post that long ░░░░░░░░ ceasefire and or peace ░░░░░░░░ we have to make ░░░░░░░░ that it is lasting ░░░░░░░░ it is durable and ░░░░░░░░ Putin will never ever ░░░░░░░░ to do this again ░░░░░░░░ this is why K ░░░░░░░░ the British prime minister ░░░░░░░░ with the French president ░░░░░░░░ now with a large ░░░░░░░░ of European countries in ░░░░░░░░ is working on what ░░░░░░░░ guarantees might look like ░░░░░░░░ so that going forward ░░░░░░░░ we can be assured ░░░░░░░░ when there is a ░░░░░░░░ deal or a ceasefire ░░░░░░░░ we have the plans ░░░░░░░░ place uh we can ░░░░░░░░ them um on the ░░░░░░░░ after that happens Um ░░░░░░░░ and that preparation I ░░░░░░░░ is also a clo ░░░░░░░░ close coordination with the ░░░░░░░░ is again evidence that ░░░░░░░░ transatlantic relationship is very ░░░░░░░░ You ve mentioned Canada ░░░░░░░░ couple of times and ░░░░░░░░ people have asked whether ░░░░░░░░ can accommodate a member ░░░░░░░░ is threatening the sovereignty ░░░░░░░░ another member as the ░░░░░░░░ has been with Canada ░░░░░░░░ obviously as u secretary ░░░░░░░░ I of NATO I ░░░░░░░░ comment about discussions between ░░░░░░░░ between NATO between NATO ░░░░░░░░ but I ve seen ░░░░░░░░ very successful visit of ░░░░░░░░ Canadian prime minister to ░░░░░░░░ White House Uh so ░░░░░░░░ s my impression that ░░░░░░░░ issues there are dealing ░░░░░░░░ that in a in ░░░░░░░░ in in an amicable ░░░░░░░░ And NATO turning back ░░░░░░░░ Europe then NATO is ░░░░░░░░ many people have said ░░░░░░░░ closely with the European ░░░░░░░░ at the moment Um ░░░░░░░░ there are still big ░░░░░░░░ of opinion uh within ░░░░░░░░ European Union within European ░░░░░░░░ um particularly on Russia ░░░░░░░░ do you accommodate that ░░░░░░░░ obviously not responsible for ░░░░░░░░ all these uh prime ░░░░░░░░ and presidents say but ░░░░░░░░ you are trying to ░░░░░░░░ arrange some kind of ░░░░░░░░ of strategy between them ░░░░░░░░ m thinking of Hungary ░░░░░░░░ Slovakia s you know ░░░░░░░░ attitudes to Russia for ░░░░░░░░ And and and by ░░░░░░░░ way they re all ░░░░░░░░ allies within within NATO ░░░░░░░░ Hungary and Slovakia and ░░░░░░░░ we are always able ░░░░░░░░ the end to come ░░░░░░░░ an agreement with the ░░░░░░░░ um NATO was never ░░░░░░░░ to have a kumbaya ░░░░░░░░ we would immediately from ░░░░░░░░ one agree on everything ░░░░░░░░ to have that debate ░░░░░░░░ democratic societies uh within ░░░░░░░░ democratic alliance which is ░░░░░░░░ in unonymity I think ░░░░░░░░ strengthens the alliance and ░░░░░░░░ it comes to the ░░░░░░░░ with the EU you ░░░░░░░░ right um we are ░░░░░░░░ closely together with European ░░░░░░░░ with the president commission ░░░░░░░░ Costa the chair the ░░░░░░░░ European council but also ░░░░░░░░ the high representative ka ░░░░░░░░ with the president European ░░░░░░░░ with and kilio the ░░░░░░░░ commission is a real ░░░░░░░░ corporation where we all ░░░░░░░░ that when it comes ░░░░░░░░ the division of labor ░░░░░░░░ is about the hard ░░░░░░░░ of the heart um ░░░░░░░░ standard setting and making ░░░░░░░░ that we know what ░░░░░░░░ need in in terms ░░░░░░░░ capabilities the the standards ░░░░░░░░ it comes to our ░░░░░░░░ and weaponry etc And ░░░░░░░░ and the EU is ░░░░░░░░ the position of the ░░░░░░░░ of the internal markets ░░░░░░░░ example getting the industrial ░░░░░░░░ going making sure that ░░░░░░░░ investments will take place ░░░░░░░░ ultimately in a couple ░░░░░░░░ years we still we ░░░░░░░░ not conclude that we ░░░░░░░░ buy the same amount ░░░░░░░░ weaponry which is far ░░░░░░░░ enough but at a ░░░░░░░░ price and and that ░░░░░░░░ is is is really ░░░░░░░░ very well M how ░░░░░░░░ you explain to people ░░░░░░░░ are running a government ░░░░░░░░ our democratic government how ░░░░░░░░ explain to their voters ░░░░░░░░ so much money is ░░░░░░░░ needed on defense the ░░░░░░░░ are going up you ░░░░░░░░ this government has taken ░░░░░░░░ to commit to 2 ░░░░░░░░ a half suddenly people ░░░░░░░░ talking about three even ░░░░░░░░ uh as you re ░░░░░░░░ so they have to ░░░░░░░░ as this government will ░░░░░░░░ it s on Wednesday ░░░░░░░░ its spending review uh ░░░░░░░░ parliament uh an illustration ░░░░░░░░ how much money there ░░░░░░░░ t for lots of ░░░░░░░░ how would you uh ░░░░░░░░ to them that they ░░░░░░░░ to voters why this ░░░░░░░░ so necessary now I ░░░░░░░░ explain it in a ░░░░░░░░ by saying that the ░░░░░░░░ we thought we were ░░░░░░░░ in after the Berlin ░░░░░░░░ came down is definitely ░░░░░░░░ This whole idea that ░░░░░░░░ would have a sort ░░░░░░░░ pleasant peaceful living together ░░░░░░░░ the Russians is gone ░░░░░░░░ Vladimir Vladimir Rich Putin ░░░░░░░░ clearly expansionistic What he ░░░░░░░░ done with Ukraine is ░░░░░░░░ is really staggering The ░░░░░░░░ amount of death on ░░░░░░░░ sides also on the ░░░░░░░░ sides by the way ░░░░░░░░ is amazing The investments ░░░░░░░░ is making His economy ░░░░░░░░ on a total war ░░░░░░░░ Uh as I said ░░░░░░░░ my speech and let ░░░░░░░░ repeat it again NATO ░░░░░░░░ is 25 times bigger ░░░░░░░░ Russia It s 50 ░░░░░░░░ and the Russian economy ░░░░░░░░ 2 trillion That two ░░░░░░░░ economy is producing four ░░░░░░░░ as much ammunition as ░░░░░░░░ whole of NATO is ░░░░░░░░ at the moment And ░░░░░░░░ can ask any general ░░░░░░░░ he will tell you ░░░░░░░░ drones and AI etc ░░░░░░░░ Mark the core of ░░░░░░░░ war will always start ░░░░░░░░ stockpiles of ammunition You ░░░░░░░░ never ever allow for ░░░░░░░░ situation where your ammunition ░░░░░░░░ are not uh sufficiently ░░░░░░░░ And here the Russians ░░░░░░░░ outpacing us four to ░░░░░░░░ four times as much ░░░░░░░░ we are producing And ░░░░░░░░ we are 25 times ░░░░░░░░ Um so and then ░░░░░░░░ at our air defense ░░░░░░░░ Um we simply do ░░░░░░░░ have enough in the ░░░░░░░░ K all over Europe ░░░░░░░░ Canada the US in ░░░░░░░░ whole of of NATO ░░░░░░░░ these are huge investments ░░░░░░░░ have f we need ░░░░░░░░ times as many um ░░░░░░░░ systems to defend ourselves ░░░░░░░░ missiles and and air ░░░░░░░░ in general That s ░░░░░░░░ 400 increase It s ░░░░░░░░ investments Our maneuverable land ░░░░░░░░ we simply do not ░░░░░░░░ enough Um the U ░░░░░░░░ Germany all over Europe ░░░░░░░░ do not have enough ░░░░░░░░ our command and control ░░░░░░░░ our long range weapons ░░░░░░░░ there is the clear ░░░░░░░░ clear gaps are there ░░░░░░░░ we have a re ░░░░░░░░ reconstituting Russia at a ░░░░░░░░ which is really threatening ░░░░░░░░ cannot mount a successful ░░░░░░░░ against NATO territory now ░░░░░░░░ in three to five ░░░░░░░░ they might be able ░░░░░░░░ wanted to ask this ░░░░░░░░ um and you you ░░░░░░░░ a lot of weight ░░░░░░░░ that uh exactly that ░░░░░░░░ sentence in your speech ░░░░░░░░ that based on military ░░░░░░░░ or is it based ░░░░░░░░ a reckoning of their ░░░░░░░░ What did what did ░░░░░░░░ mean by picking out ░░░░░░░░ three to five years ░░░░░░░░ they could attack NATO ░░░░░░░░ Yes So for example ░░░░░░░░ week it was the ░░░░░░░░ chief of defense saying ░░░░░░░░ 2029 that s in ░░░░░░░░ years uh they might ░░░░░░░░ ready to do that ░░░░░░░░ this is just based ░░░░░░░░ the military people telling ░░░░░░░░ look what Russia is ░░░░░░░░ Look where we are ░░░░░░░░ we can still defend ░░░░░░░░ But if we do ░░░░░░░░ start today with getting ░░░░░░░░ in defense industrial base ░░░░░░░░ order getting the ammunition ░░░░░░░░ going getting our def ░░░░░░░░ defense systems production going ░░░░░░░░ the Patriot the most ░░░░░░░░ air defense system we ░░░░░░░░ for the most the ░░░░░░░░ yeah advanced at the ░░░░░░░░ You will get it ░░░░░░░░ 10 years if you ░░░░░░░░ it today And the ░░░░░░░░ is bit like in ░░░░░░░░ old times of the ░░░░░░░░ Union that you can ░░░░░░░░ the return question in ░░░░░░░░ morning or the afternoon ░░░░░░░░ is that important Yes ░░░░░░░░ the afternoon the F ░░░░░░░░ will arrive Um so ░░░░░░░░ these are the the ░░░░░░░░ we are facing at ░░░░░░░░ moment and I m ░░░░░░░░ m only slightly exaggerating ░░░░░░░░ Um so and therefore ░░░░░░░░ what keeps me awake ░░░░░░░░ night is not only ░░░░░░░░ part I think we ░░░░░░░░ get there at the ░░░░░░░░ Um what I m ░░░░░░░░ getting uh awake at ░░░░░░░░ where I m staying ░░░░░░░░ at night is because ░░░░░░░░ the defense production because ░░░░░░░░ your credible deterrence it ░░░░░░░░ not only about uh ░░░░░░░░ and people it is ░░░░░░░░ about being able to ░░░░░░░░ uh of course the ░░░░░░░░ latest technologies drones etc ░░░░░░░░ recommend I commend what ░░░░░░░░ U K put in ░░░░░░░░ defense review and all ░░░░░░░░ this So this is ░░░░░░░░ great stuff and we ░░░░░░░░ that Uh but you ░░░░░░░░ also need to make ░░░░░░░░ that you can produce ░░░░░░░░ the classic uh big ░░░░░░░░ items Hence your visit ░░░░░░░░ Sheffield Let s go ░░░░░░░░ questions There are tons ░░░░░░░░ Let me start over ░░░░░░░░ Um let me uh ░░░░░░░░ that side and take ░░░░░░░░ two at the edge ░░░░░░░░ s take them in ░░░░░░░░ very much Carl Denon ░░░░░░░░ ITV News You ve ░░░░░░░░ come from Dawning Street ░░░░░░░░ you were talking to ░░░░░░░░ prime minister Uh did ░░░░░░░░ agree that he that ░░░░░░░░ would spend the 3 ░░░░░░░░ um that you want ░░░░░░░░ core defense spending And ░░░░░░░░ is the timeline that ░░░░░░░░ have agreed with him ░░░░░░░░ that Well obviously I ░░░░░░░░ I don t have ░░░░░░░░ vote in the NATO ░░░░░░░░ I m holding the ░░░░░░░░ Uh and it s ░░░░░░░░ not up to me ░░░░░░░░ disclose what uh we ░░░░░░░░ uh because I don ░░░░░░░░ think that s fair ░░░░░░░░ let me just try ░░░░░░░░ ask your question a ░░░░░░░░ way First of all ░░░░░░░░ ve seen sometimes in ░░░░░░░░ British press that there ░░░░░░░░ the uh defense review ░░░░░░░░ and now there is ░░░░░░░░ um um proposal I ░░░░░░░░ made about the the ░░░░░░░░ the 3 5 core ░░░░░░░░ 1 5 defense and ░░░░░░░░ related spending So then ░░░░░░░░ are saying hey there ░░░░░░░░ a discrepancy I don ░░░░░░░░ think there is Why ░░░░░░░░ Because every country is ░░░░░░░░ in cycles to constantly ░░░░░░░░ its own uh defense ░░░░░░░░ This is exactly what ░░░░░░░░ U K is doing ░░░░░░░░ I m really impressed ░░░░░░░░ what John Healey the ░░░░░░░░ secretary and the prime ░░░░░░░░ and the foreign secretary ░░░░░░░░ David Lammy have brought ░░░░░░░░ last week because it ░░░░░░░░ exactly what we need ░░░░░░░░ drones the latest technology ░░░░░░░░ also for example investing ░░░░░░░░ six factories producing ammunition ░░░░░░░░ mean you you you ░░░░░░░░ me about my worries ░░░░░░░░ ammunition I mean this ░░░░░░░░ at the core of ░░░░░░░░ of the U K ░░░░░░░░ review uh including the ░░░░░░░░ the spending targets together ░░░░░░░░ then there is and ░░░░░░░░ is happening in many ░░░░░░░░ in different cycles etc ░░░░░░░░ there is this summit ░░░░░░░░ up discussing how we ░░░░░░░░ over time with a ░░░░░░░░ path uh to get ░░░░░░░░ a a longerterm goal ░░░░░░░░ this uh 5 uh ░░░░░░░░ spending So I don ░░░░░░░░ see a discrepancy here ░░░░░░░░ we will as I ░░░░░░░░ here today I will ░░░░░░░░ Italy later this week ░░░░░░░░ and and also Sweden ░░░░░░░░ and I will be ░░░░░░░░ Canada next week So ░░░░░░░░ will have many more ░░░░░░░░ Uh and we will ░░░░░░░░ the details of course ░░░░░░░░ Brussels I really think ░░░░░░░░ will get to a ░░░░░░░░ common position Okay I ░░░░░░░░ going to take a ░░░░░░░░ more down here Uh ░░░░░░░░ s take the next ░░░░░░░░ along and then and ░░░░░░░░ in the row behind ░░░░░░░░ ahead Uh Harry Fet ░░░░░░░░ Channel 4 News Um ░░░░░░░░ said that the 1 ░░░░░░░░ um defense related spending ░░░░░░░░ grounded in reality and ░░░░░░░░ s not for an ░░░░░░░░ of one Um it ░░░░░░░░ though it seemed like ░░░░░░░░ happy coincidence that 1 ░░░░░░░░ plus 3 5 equals ░░░░░░░░ And there is some ░░░░░░░░ that there is an ░░░░░░░░ elasticity in how to ░░░░░░░░ what comprises that kind ░░░░░░░░ spending So how do ░░░░░░░░ respond to those concerns ░░░░░░░░ and is there a ░░░░░░░░ to define exactly what ░░░░░░░░ fall within that 1 ░░░░░░░░ So so so what ░░░░░░░░ did we had the ░░░░░░░░ 2 which was agreed ░░░░░░░░ wills and there are ░░░░░░░░ definition what you can ░░░░░░░░ to the 2 core ░░░░░░░░ spending We are not ░░░░░░░░ to change uh those ░░░░░░░░ criteria So they will ░░░░░░░░ and the 2 if ░░░░░░░░ get my way uh ░░░░░░░░ be uh 3 5 ░░░░░░░░ then when we were ░░░░░░░░ all of this um ░░░░░░░░ also look at the ░░░░░░░░ U K defense review ░░░░░░░░ is also spending a ░░░░░░░░ of time on this ░░░░░░░░ a lot of um ░░░░░░░░ discussing this um yes ░░░░░░░░ is the core defense ░░░░░░░░ but you need bridges ░░░░░░░░ are able to hold ░░░░░░░░ tank sometimes you are ░░░░░░░░ not daring with your ░░░░░░░░ to cross the bridge ░░░░░░░░ alone with the tank ░░░░░░░░ need the defense industrial ░░░░░░░░ to be developed for ░░░░░░░░ this factory in Sheffield ░░░░░░░░ bought by the U ░░░░░░░░ government because it is ░░░░░░░░ delivering core capabilities which ░░░░░░░░ essential to the U ░░░░░░░░ defense requirement Um buying ░░░░░░░░ a factory is not ░░░░░░░░ defense spend in the ░░░░░░░░ But still you need ░░░░░░░░ do it and you ░░░░░░░░ to de develop the ░░░░░░░░ industrial base because we ░░░░░░░░ do not have enough ░░░░░░░░ and then we have ░░░░░░░░ issue of societal preparedness ░░░░░░░░ you look to when ░░░░░░░░ watch Norway or Finland ░░░░░░░░ Sweden what they are ░░░░░░░░ in terms of having ░░░░░░░░ whole of society to ░░░░░░░░ what their role will ░░░░░░░░ it active or at ░░░░░░░░ not getting in the ░░░░░░░░ of the military people ░░░░░░░░ war breaks out or ░░░░░░░░ natural disaster hits uh ░░░░░░░░ mean in many other ░░░░░░░░ my country many other ░░░░░░░░ we are not nearly ░░░░░░░░ So all this spending ░░░░░░░░ needs to be done ░░░░░░░░ we have calculated this ░░░░░░░░ roughly 1 5 now ░░░░░░░░ in Brussels the the ░░░░░░░░ specific items but these ░░░░░░░░ the big ones So ░░░░░░░░ base developing your your ░░░░░░░░ infrastructure in a way ░░░░░░░░ it can help you ░░░░░░░░ move from A to ░░░░░░░░ with uh military and ░░░░░░░░ Um but of also ░░░░░░░░ big issue of preparing ░░░░░░░░ your civilian populations for ░░░░░░░░ might happen and there ░░░░░░░░ a lot of money ░░░░░░░░ we need to do ░░░░░░░░ Okay I m going ░░░░░░░░ take that one in ░░░░░░░░ uh Yes Um and ░░░░░░░░ I m coming to ░░░░░░░░ more over here Hello ░░░░░░░░ Lucas in the Times ░░░░░░░░ you mentioned in your ░░░░░░░░ improvements to the defense ░░░░░░░░ indep defense finance and ░░░░░░░░ and I was wondering ░░░░░░░░ you could elaborate on ░░░░░░░░ a bit Is is ░░░░░░░░ an illusion to the ░░░░░░░░ of a defense bank ░░░░░░░░ um John Healey was ░░░░░░░░ talking about at at ░░░░░░░░ weekend It s not ░░░░░░░░ a matter of spending ░░░░░░░░ money it s spending ░░░░░░░░ more effectively which you ░░░░░░░░ alluded to There are ░░░░░░░░ couple of initiatives out ░░░░░░░░ So I was not ░░░░░░░░ alluding to that but ░░░░░░░░ know of these initiatives ░░░░░░░░ we follow them with ░░░░░░░░ interest because everything uh ░░░░░░░░ it um possible to ░░░░░░░░ get the money and ░░░░░░░░ it where we need ░░░░░░░░ spend it is is ░░░░░░░░ But I m it ░░░░░░░░ always a bit uh ░░░░░░░░ for me to to ░░░░░░░░ into the details of ░░░░░░░░ of these initiatives But ░░░░░░░░ another initiative which is ░░░░░░░░ European Union Uh what ░░░░░░░░ EU EU is doing ░░░░░░░░ reaim uh Europe which ░░░░░░░░ an 800 billion package ░░░░░░░░ which you have the ░░░░░░░░ billion safe program You ░░░░░░░░ also argue that that ░░░░░░░░ also part of um ░░░░░░░░ up the money at ░░░░░░░░ national level to make ░░░░░░░░ possible for countries to ░░░░░░░░ enough Uh so it ░░░░░░░░ it is really optimizing ░░░░░░░░ but it s also ░░░░░░░░ your defense industrial base ░░░░░░░░ in in there there ░░░░░░░░ be opportunities when maybe ░░░░░░░░ the future you would ░░░░░░░░ unavoidable closures of some ░░░░░░░░ industrial plants for whatever ░░░░░░░░ because this is part ░░░░░░░░ your normal economic cycle ░░░░░░░░ and of course always ░░░░░░░░ but not always avoidable ░░░░░░░░ you look in a ░░░░░░░░ way whether this is ░░░░░░░░ opportunity now to use ░░░░░░░░ particular asset uh to ░░░░░░░░ into uh defense production ░░░░░░░░ all of these issues ░░░░░░░░ falling under that sentence ░░░░░░░░ you I m going ░░░░░░░░ take a few which ░░░░░░░░ um about Ukraine or ░░░░░░░░ Don t do the ░░░░░░░░ fighting now All right ░░░░░░░░ right Go on Go ░░░░░░░░ I I also very ░░░░░░░░ I m open to ░░░░░░░░ then I m coming ░░░░░░░░ Ukraine Thank you Secretary ░░░░░░░░ We don t want ░░░░░░░░ be in a fight ░░░░░░░░ you Um Jonathan Beal ░░░░░░░░ BBC Uh you didn ░░░░░░░░ actually ask answer the ░░░░░░░░ that Carl asked The ░░░░░░░░ question which was um ░░░░░░░░ what is the deadline ░░░░░░░░ this Is it what ░░░░░░░░ the is it 2032 ░░░░░░░░ 2035 Um are you ░░░░░░░░ also that spending 3 ░░░░░░░░ the same as 3 ░░░░░░░░ because it doesn t ░░░░░░░░ me that seems a ░░░░░░░░ bit odd And then ░░░░░░░░ are you are you ░░░░░░░░ to include are you ░░░░░░░░ to allow the U ░░░░░░░░ government to include they ░░░░░░░░ at the moment in ░░░░░░░░ in their 2 3 ░░░░░░░░ on security services MI5 ░░░░░░░░ Do you consider that ░░░░░░░░ be core defense spending ░░░░░░░░ you Well first of ░░░░░░░░ the the definitions we ░░░░░░░░ uh when it comes ░░░░░░░░ the present 2 and ░░░░░░░░ the U K that ░░░░░░░░ now 2 3 moving ░░░░░░░░ 2 5 and I ░░░░░░░░ heard the the number ░░░░░░░░ three we are not ░░░░░░░░ these definitions and uh ░░░░░░░░ s also is a ░░░░░░░░ bit room of flexibility ░░░░░░░░ not a lot and ░░░░░░░░ so that s something ░░░░░░░░ I know from my ░░░░░░░░ role that we had ░░░░░░░░ debates with NATO what ░░░░░░░░ Netherlands could figure in ░░░░░░░░ defense spending and not ░░░░░░░░ there s always a ░░░░░░░░ bit of of a ░░░░░░░░ going on there and ░░░░░░░░ in the end you ░░░░░░░░ reach a consent So ░░░░░░░░ so I m not ░░░░░░░░ of what exactly the ░░░░░░░░ are between the U ░░░░░░░░ and and NATO on ░░░░░░░░ they figure in the ░░░░░░░░ 3 or 2 5 ░░░░░░░░ s say in the ░░░░░░░░ uh um but I ░░░░░░░░ not be amazed that ░░░░░░░░ debate takes place because ░░░░░░░░ allies are having those ░░░░░░░░ discussions But it comes ░░░░░░░░ your first question um ░░░░░░░░ have a clear view ░░░░░░░░ when we should achieve ░░░░░░░░ Uh I keep that ░░░░░░░░ myself uh because we ░░░░░░░░ having these consultations now ░░░░░░░░ allies and and uh ░░░░░░░░ discussions are ongoing and ░░░░░░░░ will in the end ░░░░░░░░ on a date when ░░░░░░░░ have to be there ░░░░░░░░ me it is important ░░░░░░░░ it will not be ░░░░░░░░ I said last weekend ░░░░░░░░ we met in Brussels ░░░░░░░░ will be a flat ░░░░░░░░ and then at the ░░░░░░░░ where we have to ░░░░░░░░ the 5 the 3 ░░░░░░░░ and the 1 5 ░░░░░░░░ hockey stick and then ░░░░░░░░ of a sudden because ░░░░░░░░ cannot spend all that ░░░░░░░░ in one year there ░░░░░░░░ an absorption capacity issue ░░░░░░░░ can you can only ░░░░░░░░ so much extra each ░░░░░░░░ So there has to ░░░░░░░░ a credible path Uh ░░░░░░░░ for me is very ░░░░░░░░ that that countries commit ░░░░░░░░ that and and and ░░░░░░░░ that path and share ░░░░░░░░ with uh with NATO ░░░░░░░░ that we would not ░░░░░░░░ the same as in ░░░░░░░░ We commit all to ░░░░░░░░ the U K was ░░░░░░░░ 2 Greece was on ░░░░░░░░ the US was on ░░░░░░░░ but basically till Trump ░░░░░░░░ president nothing happened and ░░░░░░░░ all of a sudden ░░░░░░░░ woke up in in ░░░░░░░░ in 2018 and up ░░░░░░░░ spending went up so ░░░░░░░░ have to have a ░░░░░░░░ uh path there Uh ░░░░░░░░ then on the I ░░░░░░░░ t understand the three ░░░░░░░░ for for what what ░░░░░░░░ propose is 3 5 ░░░░░░░░ defense spending uh by ░░░░░░░░ X and that s ░░░░░░░░ discussed now and 1 ░░░░░░░░ on on defense uh ░░░░░░░░ uh so we are ░░░░░░░░ putting out a number ░░░░░░░░ three anywhere okay anyone ░░░░░░░░ a question on Ukraine ░░░░░░░░ Russia there s quite ░░░░░░░░ lot online I want ░░░░░░░░ take a whole group ░░░░░░░░ me take several uh ░░░░░░░░ on that um Arisia ░░░░░░░░ s here and then ░░░░░░░░ m going to come ░░░░░░░░ to the back Thanks ░░░░░░░░ much Bronin Thanks Secretary ░░░░░░░░ for coming and speaking ░░░░░░░░ us I have a ░░░░░░░░ Uh two summits in ░░░░░░░░ row Ukraine was said ░░░░░░░░ it has an irreversible ░░░░░░░░ to NATO Fast forward ░░░░░░░░ spring we hear that ░░░░░░░░ States is perhaps ready ░░░░░░░░ offer Russia a concession ░░░░░░░░ means Ukraine will not ░░░░░░░░ the NATO So my ░░░░░░░░ is whether such concession ░░░░░░░░ make NATO better or ░░░░░░░░ and will Ukraine join ░░░░░░░░ in the H Well ░░░░░░░░ of all my aim ░░░░░░░░ is for this summer ░░░░░░░░ have a very concise ░░░░░░░░ list of conclusions So ░░░░░░░░ communicate which is concise ░░░░░░░░ know from the last ░░░░░░░░ Washington summit I think ░░░░░░░░ was 60 pages 90 ░░░░░░░░ It will be considerably ░░░░░░░░ condensed uh uh than ░░░░░░░░ And that means that ░░░░░░░░ do not always have ░░░░░░░░ repeat every sentence and ░░░░░░░░ um previous made commitment ░░░░░░░░ it stands the strategic ░░░░░░░░ stands The Washington communicate ░░░░░░░░ So this the irreversible ░░░░░░░░ of Ukraine into NATO ░░░░░░░░ there and it is ░░░░░░░░ assumption that is still ░░░░░░░░ after the summit Whether ░░░░░░░░ is again in the ░░░░░░░░ or not I think ░░░░░░░░ s not relevant Uh ░░░░░░░░ uh all the language ░░░░░░░░ previously agreed on is ░░░░░░░░ till we decide it ░░░░░░░░ not any longer there ░░░░░░░░ I pretty much um ░░░░░░░░ presume that at my ░░░░░░░░ after the summit I ░░░░░░░░ repeat uh that sentence ░░░░░░░░ being part of uh ░░░░░░░░ of what NATO agree ░░░░░░░░ we are building that ░░░░░░░░ act as we are ░░░░░░░░ through the command in ░░░░░░░░ through the um the ░░░░░░░░ in Poland We have ░░░░░░░░ with Ukraine to capture ░░░░░░░░ the lessons uh through ░░░░░░░░ uh comprehensive assistant package ░░░░░░░░ the other activities of ░░░░░░░░ course our uh our ░░░░░░░░ in uh Kief uh ░░░░░░░░ NATO team in Kiev ░░░░░░░░ closely with the Ukrainian ░░░░░░░░ So so all of ░░░░░░░░ uh is there and ░░░░░░░░ building basically the bridge ░░░░░░░░ what I would uh ░░░░░░░░ that the NATO summit ░░░░░░░░ be really about spending ░░░░░░░░ will be about production ░░░░░░░░ course there will be ░░░░░░░░ in the communicate no ░░░░░░░░ Uh but but don ░░░░░░░░ expect endless paragraphs of ░░░░░░░░ what we already said ░░░░░░░░ the past That s ░░░░░░░░ there and it will ░░░░░░░░ there And then on ░░░░░░░░ America but not only ░░░░░░░░ US has come out ░░░░░░░░ a long time against ░░░░░░░░ joining NATO there have ░░░░░░░░ other allies take Hungary ░░░░░░░░ Slovakia and others who ░░░░░░░░ said we are against ░░░░░░░░ So the language is ░░░░░░░░ There is this irreversible ░░░░░░░░ into NATO Um and ░░░░░░░░ again I think that ░░░░░░░░ the H communicate will ░░░░░░░░ really very much focused ░░░░░░░░ a few issues Okay ░░░░░░░░ Let me go right ░░░░░░░░ the back and then ░░░░░░░░ in the in the ░░░░░░░░ in the front Yep ░░░░░░░░ Chrisen Ellison member Uh ░░░░░░░░ General thanks very much ░░░░░░░░ your um talk and ░░░░░░░░ questions Uh you emphasize ░░░░░░░░ in Russia is about ░░░░░░░░ times that of NATO ░░░░░░░░ they re not building ░░░░░░░░ They have no stock ░░░░░░░░ They are using that ░░░░░░░░ it fair to say ░░░░░░░░ that the clock starts ░░░░░░░░ and the risks to ░░░░░░░░ start increasing once we ░░░░░░░░ a sustainable ceasefire and ░░░░░░░░ production is put into ░░░░░░░░ Statement of fact I ░░░░░░░░ and by the way ░░░░░░░░ assumption at the moment ░░░░░░░░ that even whilst the ░░░░░░░░ against Ukraine is continuing ░░░░░░░░ they are still able ░░░░░░░░ slightly increase stockpiles but ░░░░░░░░ s debatable but I ░░░░░░░░ to your question I ░░░░░░░░ that s a statement ░░░░░░░░ fact yeah okay let ░░░░░░░░ come over here to ░░░░░░░░ front thank you thank ░░░░░░░░ secretary general and Francis ░░░░░░░░ the telegraph there s ░░░░░░░░ American outlet this morning ░░░░░░░░ s describing Trump s ░░░░░░░░ to the deep strikes ░░░░░░░░ uh Russian territory by ░░░░░░░░ Ukrainian drones as being ░░░░░░░░ I wonder what your ░░░░░░░░ was to that because ░░░░░░░░ and whether you agree ░░░░░░░░ Keev that to end ░░░░░░░░ war is going to ░░░░░░░░ additional long range strikes ░░░░░░░░ Russia to take out ░░░░░░░░ industrial capacity Well to ░░░░░░░░ end this war we ░░░░░░░░ uh Putin to come ░░░░░░░░ the negotiating table uh ░░░░░░░░ not with this historian ░░░░░░░░ is now popping up ░░░░░░░░ Istanbul twice and again ░░░░░░░░ us about the history ░░░░░░░░ Russia and Ukraine from ░░░░░░░░ the 12th century I ░░░░░░░░ t know what it ░░░░░░░░ and constantly restating what ░░░░░░░░ stated already in 2022 ░░░░░░░░ need a Russia which ░░░░░░░░ serious wants to negotiate ░░░░░░░░ end the war Uh ░░░░░░░░ to get there uh ░░░░░░░░ all I think starts ░░░░░░░░ course with keeping Ukraine ░░░░░░░░ in the fight but ░░░░░░░░ we need what President ░░░░░░░░ has been doing breaking ░░░░░░░░ deadlock with uh with ░░░░░░░░ starting that starting that ░░░░░░░░ I I I really ░░░░░░░░ it starts from there ░░░░░░░░ when it comes to ░░░░░░░░ happened Sunday a week ░░░░░░░░ um let s not ░░░░░░░░ what the Ukrainians were ░░░░░░░░ was taking out capabilities ░░░░░░░░ Russia to hit innocent ░░░░░░░░ in Ukrainian cities and ░░░░░░░░ going about their daily ░░░░░░░░ not being in the ░░░░░░░░ just normal average citizens ░░░░░░░░ we are sitting here ░░░░░░░░ this room being under ░░░░░░░░ threat of uh these ░░░░░░░░ capabilities and in in ░░░░░░░░ very um innovative way ░░░░░░░░ diminished to a certain ░░░░░░░░ and we don t ░░░░░░░░ exactly what the extent ░░░░░░░░ but of course it ░░░░░░░░ a considerable impact it ░░░░░░░░ uh the capabilities of ░░░░░░░░ on this Quite a ░░░░░░░░ questions online about whether ░░░░░░░░ you re expecting a ░░░░░░░░ summer offensive from uh ░░░░░░░░ either against Ukraine or ░░░░░░░░ I m looking at ░░░░░░░░ Rogers question um military ░░░░░░░░ of Russian bases along ░░░░░░░░ s eastern flank Um ░░░░░░░░ I think the thrust ░░░░░░░░ the questions is about ░░░░░░░░ summer offensive against Ukraine ░░░░░░░░ don t expect any ░░░░░░░░ offensive against NATO territory ░░░░░░░░ s no reason to ░░░░░░░░ that because again the ░░░░░░░░ 3 to 5 years ░░░░░░░░ knows that the reaction ░░░░░░░░ be devastating for Russia ░░░░░░░░ they will not do ░░░░░░░░ But we have to ░░░░░░░░ sure 3 to 5 ░░░░░░░░ he still knows that ░░░░░░░░ is devastating so that ░░░░░░░░ are prepared And when ░░░░░░░░ comes to Ukraine um ░░░░░░░░ m not predicting what ░░░░░░░░ happen on the Russian ░░░░░░░░ What what we have ░░░░░░░░ do is to make ░░░░░░░░ that Ukraine has what ░░░░░░░░ needs The ongoing uh ░░░░░░░░ support The United Kingdom ░░░░░░░░ the way we are ░░░░░░░░ in London This country ░░░░░░░░ on the at the ░░░░░░░░ since the start of ░░░░░░░░ war Boris Johnson Rishi ░░░░░░░░ and now Kia Starmer ░░░░░░░░ consistent leadership when it ░░░░░░░░ to uh keeping Ukraine ░░░░░░░░ the fight Um and ░░░░░░░░ course together with other ░░░░░░░░ nations but U K ░░░░░░░░ really been one of ░░░░░░░░ leaders in this effort ░░░░░░░░ s go right at ░░░░░░░░ back Yes Thank you ░░░░░░░░ name is Harli Uh ░░░░░░░░ the Middle East Cham ░░░░░░░░ My question is not ░░░░░░░░ Ukraine but about Russia ░░░░░░░░ you see the Russians ░░░░░░░░ the Chinese playing any ░░░░░░░░ in the Red Sea ░░░░░░░░ arming the Houthis or ░░░░░░░░ them And overall where ░░░░░░░░ the NATO see the ░░░░░░░░ Sea crisis let s ░░░░░░░░ your top 10 of ░░░░░░░░ Does that flag on ░░░░░░░░ radar overall Thank you ░░░░░░░░ here our biggest worry ░░░░░░░░ course is with um ░░░░░░░░ with Iran and the ░░░░░░░░ that Iran is part ░░░░░░░░ this forsome this this ░░░░░░░░ awful forsome of North ░░░░░░░░ China Iran and Russia ░░░░░░░░ I have no reason ░░░░░░░░ believe and no one ░░░░░░░░ any reason to believe ░░░░░░░░ Iran is doing this ░░░░░░░░ because they just want ░░░░░░░░ be friendly uh to ░░░░░░░░ Russians We assume that ░░░░░░░░ get a lot for ░░░░░░░░ in return particularly money ░░░░░░░░ and as we know ░░░░░░░░ use this uses this ░░░░░░░░ directly and through its ░░░░░░░░ uh to steer conflict ░░░░░░░░ in the Middle East ░░░░░░░░ there is at least ░░░░░░░░ indirect Link as as ░░░░░░░░ is a Link between ░░░░░░░░ North Korea is doing ░░░░░░░░ Russia s war effort ░░░░░░░░ missile technology in return ░░░░░░░░ is posing a threat ░░░░░░░░ the US mainland Great ░░░░░░░░ you Let me come ░░░░░░░░ in the orange Danielle ░░░░░░░░ from the Telegraph Do ░░░░░░░░ think this Wednesday here ░░░░░░░░ the Yeah Yeah Yeah ░░░░░░░░ newspaper I was almost ░░░░░░░░ going to say where ░░░░░░░░ was from actually but ░░░░░░░░ do you think this ░░░░░░░░ we should see the ░░░░░░░░ raise taxes in order ░░░░░░░░ cover the defense spending ░░░░░░░░ you think is required ░░░░░░░░ it s not up ░░░░░░░░ me to decide of ░░░░░░░░ how countries um um ░░░░░░░░ the bill I mean ░░░░░░░░ I know is that ░░░░░░░░ we want to keep ░░░░░░░░ societies safe um and ░░░░░░░░ look if you if ░░░░░░░░ do not do this ░░░░░░░░ you would not go ░░░░░░░░ the 5 including the ░░░░░░░░ five the 3 5 ░░░░░░░░ defense spending you could ░░░░░░░░ have the National Health ░░░░░░░░ or in other countries ░░░░░░░░ health systems the pension ░░░░░░░░ etc But you d ░░░░░░░░ learn to speak Russian ░░░░░░░░ I mean that s ░░░░░░░░ consequence I cannot I ░░░░░░░░ when I came to ░░░░░░░░ people sometimes told me ░░░░░░░░ yeah but Mark bring ░░░░░░░░ brutal facts out in ░░░░░░░░ open might also rattle ░░░░░░░░ populations Yes they better ░░░░░░░░ rattled because this is ░░░░░░░░ reality I mean let ░░░░░░░░ be honest Our task ░░░░░░░░ politicians to be brutally ░░░░░░░░ how we see the ░░░░░░░░ and what is the ░░░░░░░░ the facts are clearly ░░░░░░░░ that Russia is able ░░░░░░░░ 5 years to to ░░░░░░░░ a credible attack against ░░░░░░░░ territory if we do ░░░░░░░░ now start to take ░░░░░░░░ decisions and then of ░░░░░░░░ there is the issue ░░░░░░░░ to finance that well ░░░░░░░░ s up to national ░░░░░░░░ and there always I ░░░░░░░░ when I was in ░░░░░░░░ you had three sources ░░░░░░░░ do this from one ░░░░░░░░ taxation another is savings ░░░░░░░░ and the third one ░░░░░░░░ a higher deficit I ░░░░░░░░ In the end politics ░░░░░░░░ making choices in scarcity ░░░░░░░░ is why you why ░░░░░░░░ choose your politicians and ░░░░░░░░ a center le politician ░░░░░░░░ be make different choices ░░░░░░░░ a center right politician ░░░░░░░░ okay that s that ░░░░░░░░ that s up to ░░░░░░░░ national government But uh ░░░░░░░░ my point is we ░░░░░░░░ got to do it.