RUSH TRANSCRIPT All right ░░░░░░░░ us now anchor and ░░░░░░░░ Washington correspondent for CNN ░░░░░░░░ Tapper and national political ░░░░░░░░ for Axios Alex Thompson ░░░░░░░░ are coauthors of the ░░░░░░░░ book entitled original sin ░░░░░░░░ Biden s decline its ░░░░░░░░ up and his disastrous ░░░░░░░░ to run again Interesting ░░░░░░░░ for the book given ░░░░░░░░ Good to have you ░░░░░░░░ on I guess I ░░░░░░░░ I ll start with ░░░░░░░░ of an obvious question ░░░░░░░░ Jake is it fair ░░░░░░░░ say that Joe Biden ░░░░░░░░ a successful presidency remarkable ░░░░░░░░ possibly even a historic ░░░░░░░░ in his time in ░░░░░░░░ Well He certainly feels ░░░░░░░░ way and we don ░░░░░░░░ really render When you ░░░░░░░░ at the legislation that ░░░░░░░░ passed and his accomplishments ░░░░░░░░ how it ranks against ░░░░░░░░ presidents I I m ░░░░░░░░ here to render a ░░░░░░░░ on how Successful a ░░░░░░░░ he was Certainly he ░░░░░░░░ that way You can ░░░░░░░░ to any number of ░░░░░░░░ he has He had ░░░░░░░░ to do with NATO ░░░░░░░░ the infrastructure bill or ░░░░░░░░ CHIPS Act And on ░░░░░░░░ on And that will ░░░░░░░░ for history to decide ░░░░░░░░ the American people thought ░░░░░░░░ the country was on ░░░░░░░░ wrong track And took ░░░░░░░░ with The border And ░░░░░░░░ and his age and ░░░░░░░░ But this book is ░░░░░░░░ Focused on what happened ░░░░░░░░ know we all saw ░░░░░░░░ debate June 27th We ░░░░░░░░ all shocked We were ░░░░░░░░ stunned at his inability ░░░░░░░░ communicate his thoughts And ░░░░░░░░ Record that you speak ░░░░░░░░ to the American people ░░░░░░░░ Alex and I set ░░░░░░░░ to figure out what ░░░░░░░░ Right So So so ░░░░░░░░ s question is a ░░░░░░░░ question because you know ░░░░░░░░ s always mocked and ░░░░░░░░ by Democrats early on ░░░░░░░░ oh you can t ░░░░░░░░ with Republicans He passed ░░░░░░░░ bipartisan legislation than just ░░░░░░░░ anybody I always talked ░░░░░░░░ The Wall Street Journal ░░░░░░░░ in June which I ░░░░░░░░ ought to discuss which ░░░░░░░░ had to use Kevin ░░░░░░░░ as a source who ░░░░░░░░ contradicted what he said ░░░░░░░░ And yet after that ░░░░░░░░ did some pretty intensive ░░░░░░░░ Get evan out of ░░░░░░░░ So here here s ░░░░░░░░ question And I think ░░░░░░░░ reading the book you ░░░░░░░░ are not passing judgment ░░░░░░░░ correct me if I ░░░░░░░░ wrong on whether he ░░░░░░░░ the skills and the ░░░░░░░░ to run the White ░░░░░░░░ effectively versus a political ░░░░░░░░ Or are you saying ░░░░░░░░ he was incapable of ░░░░░░░░ his duties as president ░░░░░░░░ the United States I ░░░░░░░░ saying by 2024 There ░░░░░░░░ members of the cabinet ░░░░░░░░ did Have some Concerns ░░░░░░░░ necessarily About a day ░░░░░░░░ day but what If ░░░░░░░░ Was a massive crisis ░░░░░░░░ The middle of the ░░░░░░░░ There were some cabinet ░░░░░░░░ that did have Concerns ░░░░░░░░ That last year There ░░░░░░░░ definitely people in this ░░░░░░░░ who wondered after the ░░░░░░░░ who wondered who was ░░░░░░░░ running the country That ░░░░░░░░ not that s not ░░░░░░░░ that Alex and I ░░░░░░░░ but it is something ░░░░░░░░ Democrats and people who ░░░░░░░░ for Biden wondered So ░░░░░░░░ And by the way ░░░░░░░░ was released from Russia ░░░░░░░░ not So here s ░░░░░░░░ s here s my ░░░░░░░░ that I d love ░░░░░░░░ you guys to answer ░░░░░░░░ I was in there ░░░░░░░░ time I was talking ░░░░░░░░ people who were friends ░░░░░░░░ the Biden Administration with ░░░░░░░░ will be friends with ░░░░░░░░ long after the Biden ░░░░░░░░ I talked about just ░░░░░░░░ everybody but I would ░░░░░░░░ say out loud never ░░░░░░░░ close to Donald Didn ░░░░░░░░ really talk to him ░░░░░░░░ didn t talk to ░░░░░░░░ And so the people ░░░░░░░░ talked to though we ░░░░░░░░ real time conversations over ░░░░░░░░ So I m curious ░░░░░░░░ you have 200 people ░░░░░░░░ you this guy was ░░░░░░░░ of being president the ░░░░░░░░ States or this guy ░░░░░░░░ changed so radically So ░░░░░░░░ guess what Do you ░░░░░░░░ my question Yes because ░░░░░░░░ know though whoever you ░░░░░░░░ to Yeah chances are ░░░░░░░░ I know him and ░░░░░░░░ ve talked to him ░░░░░░░░ real time and I ░░░░░░░░ got that So one ░░░░░░░░ the things that s ░░░░░░░░ important to understand about ░░░░░░░░ reporting from this book ░░░░░░░░ that we Spoke with ░░░░░░░░ More than 200 people ░░░░░░░░ of them Biden loving ░░░░░░░░ insiders And almost all ░░░░░░░░ interviews were After the ░░░░░░░░ right Because after the ░░░░░░░░ people felt much more ░░░░░░░░ to come forward and ░░░░░░░░ But but but but ░░░░░░░░ you re a cabinet ░░░░░░░░ and you say he ░░░░░░░░ t do his basic ░░░░░░░░ is said in the ░░░░░░░░ the for they said ░░░░░░░░ I I m just ░░░░░░░░ should those people be ░░░░░░░░ anonymity if I mean ░░░░░░░░ can you sit there ░░░░░░░░ you knew he wasn ░░░░░░░░ capable of being president ░░░░░░░░ the United States It ░░░░░░░░ a great question And ░░░░░░░░ wait until he s ░░░░░░░░ of office Go okay ░░░░░░░░ I m going to ░░░░░░░░ this off my chest ░░░░░░░░ it s a it ░░░░░░░░ absolutely a great question ░░░░░░░░ the sources in the ░░░░░░░░ And many of them ░░░░░░░░ Regret that they hadn ░░░░░░░░ come forward until Election ░░░░░░░░ The bottom line is ░░░░░░░░ reason that Biden his ░░░░░░░░ His son donilon Ricchetti ░░░░░░░░ others convinced themselves that ░░░░░░░░ they were doing was ░░░░░░░░ the best interest of ░░░░░░░░ country was right one ░░░░░░░░ thought only Joe Biden ░░░░░░░░ defeat Donald Trump They ░░░░░░░░ convinced of that Two ░░░░░░░░ thought that Donald Trump ░░░░░░░░ an existential threat to ░░░░░░░░ republic Right And if ░░░░░░░░ think that those are ░░░░░░░░ that those are the ░░░░░░░░ you can justify almost ░░░░░░░░ Well they also thought ░░░░░░░░ as you all point ░░░░░░░░ that Kamala Harris couldn ░░░░░░░░ beat Donald Trump right ░░░░░░░░ much of that And ░░░░░░░░ and then she I ░░░░░░░░ How much of it ░░░░░░░░ them looking for a ░░░░░░░░ versus what was the ░░░░░░░░ But you go back ░░░░░░░░ that 2019 primary You ░░░░░░░░ almost every candidate filled ░░░░░░░░ that acl Questionnaire that ░░░░░░░░ infamous right Joe Biden ░░░░░░░░ not because they Felt ░░░░░░░░ it was going to ░░░░░░░░ them too far to ░░░░░░░░ left They knew that ░░░░░░░░ Harris Had run to ░░░░░░░░ left In fact actually ░░░░░░░░ people In the Biden ░░░░░░░░ said when they knew ░░░░░░░░ title of our book ░░░░░░░░ were like the Original ░░░░░░░░ actually was picking Kamala ░░░░░░░░ because you know Biden ░░░░░░░░ Heart was With gretchen ░░░░░░░░ because he saw her ░░░░░░░░ sort of a next ░░░░░░░░ of Biden Democrat But ░░░░░░░░ picked Kamala Harris because ░░░░░░░░ was you know we ░░░░░░░░ going to unite the ░░░░░░░░ We re not going ░░░░░░░░ have a bernie Hillary ░░░░░░░░ We re going to ░░░░░░░░ a more progressive person ░░░░░░░░ right a few thoughts ░░░░░░░░ feelings and then a ░░░░░░░░ I really loved reading ░░░░░░░░ book It was really ░░░░░░░░ written Great reporting Thank ░░░░░░░░ And it Tells me ░░░░░░░░ has to be A ░░░░░░░░ coming here I know ░░░░░░░░ re ready I know ░░░░░░░░ is I really enjoyed ░░░░░░░░ it And there s ░░░░░░░░ in there I didn ░░░░░░░░ know before It was ░░░░░░░░ news He was older ░░░░░░░░ even in the campaign ░░░░░░░░ he won Sure He ░░░░░░░░ the guy fat in ░░░░░░░░ Hampshire and we all ░░░░░░░░ it in real time ░░░░░░░░ He you know I ░░░░░░░░ ve talked David Ignatius ░░░░░░░░ we debated this and ░░░░░░░░ this in real time ░░░░░░░░ one of the contentions ░░░░░░░░ make is that that ░░░░░░░░ sort of the media ░░░░░░░░ t do its part ░░░░░░░░ did like way too ░░░░░░░░ And what s not ░░░░░░░░ the book is the ░░░░░░░░ after the debate Joe ░░░░░░░░ painfully immediately says Biden ░░░░░░░░ step out of the ░░░░░░░░ And it was really ░░░░░░░░ big change for the ░░░░░░░░ of the show I ░░░░░░░░ went on a very ░░░░░░░░ plea for him to ░░░░░░░░ in the race and ░░░░░░░░ still stand by it ░░░░░░░░ agrees with me but ░░░░░░░░ debated this and we ░░░░░░░░ this and my point ░░░░░░░░ that we did this ░░░░░░░░ real time There is ░░░░░░░░ new information in this ░░░░░░░░ Great reporting but I ░░░░░░░░ to understand why you ░░░░░░░░ using words like cover ░░░░░░░░ which insinuates a crime ░░░░░░░░ something was a crime ░░░░░░░░ because we re in ░░░░░░░░ environment where we are ░░░░░░░░ an administration that is ░░░░░░░░ in office right now ░░░░░░░░ is pushing the limits ░░░░░░░░ the law in every ░░░░░░░░ And so I which ░░░░░░░░ and I cover every ░░░░░░░░ at Axios I know ░░░░░░░░ do but you ve ░░░░░░░░ hours and hours to ░░░░░░░░ book And it was ░░░░░░░░ a cover up that ░░░░░░░░ actually like a Cover ░░░░░░░░ Well we re Not ░░░░░░░░ re To be clear ░░░░░░░░ re not Arguing there ░░░░░░░░ Any sort of crime ░░░░░░░░ I would say I ░░░░░░░░ I watched you guys ░░░░░░░░ the show the day ░░░░░░░░ the debate and I ░░░░░░░░ see sort of the ░░░░░░░░ know in some ways ░░░░░░░░ and shock But you ░░░░░░░░ Were shocked by that ░░░░░░░░ right Yes And I ░░░░░░░░ the book very clearly ░░░░░░░░ that he Had moments ░░░░░░░░ that behind the scenes ░░░░░░░░ there was before the ░░░░░░░░ if there was not ░░░░░░░░ there was not a ░░░░░░░░ Up Then you guys ░░░░░░░░ t Have been shocked ░░░░░░░░ I ask you this ░░░░░░░░ I ask you this ░░░░░░░░ you shocked by the ░░░░░░░░ Of course Especially in ░░░░░░░░ By the debate I ░░░░░░░░ there I mean I ░░░░░░░░ been covering I ve ░░░░░░░░ pretty aggressively Covering his ░░░░░░░░ And also I think ░░░░░░░░ s a distinction Between ░░░░░░░░ his Age as a ░░░░░░░░ matter versus covering what ░░░░░░░░ going on behind the ░░░░░░░░ in order to fit ░░░░░░░░ limitations which is sort ░░░░░░░░ what I was doing ░░░░░░░░ so I was I ░░░░░░░░ t say I was ░░░░░░░░ I was a little ░░░░░░░░ that he d gotten ░░░░░░░░ Bad hitting His limitation ░░░░░░░░ that what s happening ░░░░░░░░ today s I mean ░░░░░░░░ mean so and really ░░░░░░░░ mean the thing is ░░░░░░░░ I talk to people ░░░░░░░░ know Joe Joe Biden ░░░░░░░░ well And I ve ░░░░░░░░ it on the show ░░░░░░░░ talked before the debate ░░░░░░░░ were pretty confident that ░░░░░░░░ voice is a little ░░░░░░░░ but he s you ░░░░░░░░ seems like he s ░░░░░░░░ to go And then ░░░░░░░░ minutes into the debate ░░░░░░░░ called back and were ░░░░░░░░ did he have a ░░░░░░░░ It was shocking in ░░░░░░░░ time to a lot ░░░░░░░░ people In hindsight you ░░░░░░░░ back and look and ░░░░░░░░ watch his gait and ░░░░░░░░ the times he fell ░░░░░░░░ he says well he ░░░░░░░░ his foot a few ░░░░░░░░ ago And that was ░░░░░░░░ lie by the way ░░░░░░░░ broke his foot but ░░░░░░░░ wasn t The Reason ░░░░░░░░ he walked Well that ░░░░░░░░ what I m saying ░░░░░░░░ hindsight now that you ░░░░░░░░ that those were all ░░░░░░░░ of excuses pushed out ░░░░░░░░ the White House I ░░░░░░░░ curious for both of ░░░░░░░░ because it ties Into ░░░░░░░░ the news we ve ░░░░░░░░ reporting this morning Jake ░░░░░░░░ ll start with you ░░░░░░░░ this The psa test ░░░░░░░░ Cancer that he hadn ░░░░░░░░ had a psa test ░░░░░░░░ 2014 Yeah it boggles ░░░░░░░░ mind to think that ░░░░░░░░ president of his age ░░░░░░░░ people say well men ░░░░░░░░ 70 don t always ░░░░░░░░ them You re the ░░░░░░░░ of the United States ░░░░░░░░ you all find anything ░░░░░░░░ signaled he may have ░░░░░░░░ cancer when he was ░░░░░░░░ for president or someone ░░░░░░░░ while he was president ░░░░░░░░ absolutely not But I ░░░░░░░░ say this The cancer ░░░░░░░░ the prostate cancer diagnosis ░░░░░░░░ I know everybody here ░░░░░░░░ wishing him the best ░░░░░░░░ praying for him and ░░░░░░░░ family It illustrates Two ░░░░░░░░ that I think are ░░░░░░░░ in the book One ░░░░░░░░ difficulty of reporting anything ░░░░░░░░ to do with health ░░░░░░░░ First of all there ░░░░░░░░ always a lack of ░░░░░░░░ whether it s the ░░░░░░░░ or the trumps or ░░░░░░░░ they don t willingly ░░░░░░░░ this information And two ░░░░░░░░ s Difficult to Report ░░░░░░░░ stuff We don t ░░░░░░░░ subpoena power We can ░░░░░░░░ break into doctor s ░░░░░░░░ and it s very ░░░░░░░░ These are the most ░░░░░░░░ things about a person ░░░░░░░░ there can be And ░░░░░░░░ second point I d ░░░░░░░░ is this is a ░░░░░░░░ that has long Been ░░░░░░░░ to Share information about ░░░░░░░░ And as tragic as ░░░░░░░░ Biden s death was ░░░░░░░░ remains to this day ░░░░░░░░ were not transparent about ░░░░░░░░ was going on with ░░░░░░░░ and they were not ░░░░░░░░ about what Was going ░░░░░░░░ With with President Biden ░░░░░░░░ he was in the ░░░░░░░░ House You can make ░░░░░░░░ case though that their ░░░░░░░░ s illness was a ░░░░░░░░ matter and for them ░░░░░░░░ he was a sitting ░░░░░░░░ general of Delaware Right ░░░░░░░░ I mean but if ░░░░░░░░ re the president of ░░░░░░░░ United States your doctor ░░░░░░░░ you write about this ░░░░░░░░ o connor who s ░░░░░░░░ close to the president ░░░░░░░░ have had a responsibility ░░░░░░░░ least to test right ░░░░░░░░ prostate cancer Yeah But ░░░░░░░░ could also argue that ░░░░░░░░ had a responsibility to ░░░░░░░░ a cognitive test which ░░░░░░░░ normal for people over ░░░░░░░░ And he never did ░░░░░░░░ either It s always ░░░░░░░░ question that that was ░░░░░░░░ by doctor Jonathan Reiner ░░░░░░░░ we interviewed for the ░░░░░░░░ who s a consultant ░░░░░░░░ the White House medical ░░░░░░░░ and has been for ░░░░░░░░ many years Why would ░░░░░░░░ not give President Biden ░░░░░░░░ cognitive test Well because ░░░░░░░░ don t want to ░░░░░░░░ the answer that that ░░░░░░░░ what reiner thought And ░░░░░░░░ thinks that the way ░░░░░░░░ fix this issue not ░░░░░░░░ for Biden but for ░░░░░░░░ and other future presidents ░░░░░░░░ the White House doctor ░░░░░░░░ have to testify under ░░░░░░░░ He should have to ░░░░░░░░ his wife s White ░░░░░░░░ medical records under threat ░░░░░░░░ perjury So every White ░░░░░░░░ no matter Which party ░░░░░░░░ or Democrat administration part ░░░░░░░░ the job is to ░░░░░░░░ The president look Good ░░░░░░░░ make To make Adjustments ░░░░░░░░ The schedule To Set ░░░░░░░░ systems They look good ░░░░░░░░ versus Don t they ░░░░░░░░ t eliminate those They ░░░░░░░░ t you know and ░░░░░░░░ s Not just second ░░░░░░░░ Ronald Reagan which is ░░░░░░░░ most famous example But ░░░░░░░░ you know much younger ░░░░░░░░ And also Right now ░░░░░░░░ President Trump his team ░░░░░░░░ around So Why what ░░░░░░░░ this Administration what they ░░░░░░░░ To protect their principal ░░░░░░░░ is that a cover ░░░░░░░░ In some of these ░░░░░░░░ wouldn t be Well ░░░░░░░░ Think a lot of ░░░░░░░░ things start innocently enough ░░░░░░░░ your point You know ░░░░░░░░ speechwriting Team early On ░░░░░░░░ that he couldn t ░░░░░░░░ the speech speeches the ░░░░░░░░ he used to And ░░░░░░░░ the Vocabulary shrunk the ░░░░░░░░ shrunk the paragraph shrunk ░░░░░░░░ by the end of ░░░░░░░░ I think it becomes ░░░░░░░░ that There is a ░░░░░░░░ issue than just him ░░░░░░░░ in ways beyond a ░░░░░░░░ principal and that there ░░░░░░░░ actually a decline and ░░░░░░░░ his ability to do ░░░░░░░░ job And I think ░░░░░░░░ is a point when ░░░░░░░░ there s always a ░░░░░░░░ between loyal to the ░░░░░░░░ and loyalty to the ░░░░░░░░ institution And I think ░░░░░░░░ was at that point ░░░░░░░░ there was that tension ░░░░░░░░ I think they chose ░░░░░░░░ to the principal Who ░░░░░░░░ they And this is ░░░░░░░░ I really again because ░░░░░░░░ I know so many ░░░░░░░░ the people that I ░░░░░░░░ sure you all talked ░░░░░░░░ off the record who ░░░░░░░░ in real time we ░░░░░░░░ sort of trying to ░░░░░░░░ through and figure this ░░░░░░░░ But who is the ░░░░░░░░ in this conspiracy I ░░░░░░░░ is it the inner ░░░░░░░░ Yeah The people that ░░░░░░░░ in charge were Mike ░░░░░░░░ Steve ricchetti Bruce reed ░░░░░░░░ bernal the First Lady ░░░░░░░░ chief chief of staff ░░░░░░░░ First Lady and annie ░░░░░░░░ Those are the people ░░░░░░░░ saw him the most ░░░░░░░░ that had the most ░░░░░░░░ over what he was ░░░░░░░░ and his day to ░░░░░░░░ One other thing just ░░░░░░░░ your point Jonathan is ░░░░░░░░ there is a difference ░░░░░░░░ making sure that the ░░░░░░░░ the president has a ░░░░░░░░ for when he s ░░░░░░░░ Remarks in the east ░░░░░░░░ and having a teleprompter ░░░░░░░░ he is doing private ░░░░░░░░ in a 40 person ░░░░░░░░ in Chicago Right I ░░░░░░░░ you would admit that ░░░░░░░░ or you would acknowledge ░░░░░░░░ that that s one ░░░░░░░░ them Sure Understandably You ░░░░░░░░ to like have your ░░░░░░░░ ready to go in ░░░░░░░░ of the American people ░░░░░░░░ you want to make ░░░░░░░░ that you re saying ░░░░░░░░ right thing and you ░░░░░░░░ being presidential at a ░░░░░░░░ event with 40 or ░░░░░░░░ people in Chicago that ░░░░░░░░ have to have a ░░░░░░░░ Why do you have ░░░░░░░░ have a teleprompter at ░░░░░░░░ I mean to that ░░░░░░░░ we Did though To ░░░░░░░░ you said earlier We ░░░░░░░░ in real time I ░░░░░░░░ in the presidential I ░░░░░░░░ in the Pool for ░░░░░░░░ of these fundraisers It ░░░░░░░░ in New York City ░░░░░░░░ President Biden at the ░░░░░░░░ You know he gave ░░░░░░░░ he told a story ░░░░░░░░ kind of lost his ░░░░░░░░ in his notes He ░░░░░░░░ the story again and ░░░░░░░░ wrote about You know ░░░░░░░░ that he had So ░░░░░░░░ wrote about at the ░░░░░░░░ and we covered it ░░░░░░░░ As well You were ░░░░░░░░ right And since it ░░░░░░░░ widely covered and there ░░░░░░░░ new things in the ░░░░░░░░ but they are things ░░░░░░░░ two things there were ░░░░░░░░ that we covered similar ░░░░░░░░ what we covered and ░░░░░░░░ Joe Biden the way ░░░░░░░░ is like the Biden ░░░░░░░░ as we call it ░░░░░░░░ the book You know ░░░░░░░░ he called He called ░░░░░░░░ guy fat in New ░░░░░░░░ And or if people ░░░░░░░░ after him they people ░░░░░░░░ like they re like ░░░░░░░░ get off our guy ░░░░░░░░ we love Joe Biden ░░░░░░░░ think everybody would agree ░░░░░░░░ we all saw him ░░░░░░░░ 20 1920 What happens ░░░░░░░░ people Yes Of course ░░░░░░░░ to me Right now ░░░░░░░░ s not news Yeah ░░░░░░░░ it s news in ░░░░░░░░ sense that when one ░░░░░░░░ these incidents would happen ░░░░░░░░ guys would air them ░░░░░░░░ would air Them in ░░░░░░░░ Yes The question is ░░░░░░░░ else was going on ░░░░░░░░ I would argue that ░░░░░░░░ s a difference between ░░░░░░░░ as we reveal in ░░░░░░░░ book that he didn ░░░░░░░░ recognize George Clooney at ░░░░░░░░ fundraiser or that he ░░░░░░░░ t come up with ░░░░░░░░ name of Jake Sullivan ░░░░░░░░ the scenes Biden That ░░░░░░░░ the not not being ░░░░░░░░ to recognize George Clooney ░░░░░░░░ Biden I mean I ░░░░░░░░ saw George Clooney I ░░░░░░░░ okay anyway Or not ░░░░░░░░ the name not being ░░░░░░░░ to come up with ░░░░░░░░ name of his national ░░░░░░░░ adviser Jake Sullivan There ░░░░░░░░ a Difference between that ░░░░░░░░ people senators that we ░░░░░░░░ we refer to in ░░░░░░░░ book having serious questions ░░░░░░░░ how much President Biden ░░░░░░░░ actually running things those ░░░░░░░░ s different and I ░░░░░░░░ argue more significant than ░░░░░░░░ tripping on a commencement ░░░░░░░░ What I want to ░░░░░░░░ to ultimately is what ░░░░░░░░ takeaways are for the ░░░░░░░░ If Democrats or Republicans ░░░░░░░░ themselves in a situation ░░░░░░░░ this And by the ░░░░░░░░ can we all remember ░░░░░░░░ s doctor giving the ░░░░░░░░ about his health Oh ░░░░░░░░ Trump is older Than ░░░░░░░░ Biden was when he ░░░░░░░░ inaugurated and We know ░░░░░░░░ About Trump s health ░░░░░░░░ have no idea Yeah ░░░░░░░░ this is not you ░░░░░░░░ covering this is not ░░░░░░░░ excuse for Donald Trump ░░░░░░░░ What are the takeaways ░░░░░░░░ do we learn here ░░░░░░░░ future situations that could ░░░░░░░░ similar The party can ░░░░░░░░ I d say two ░░░░░░░░ One is what Jake ░░░░░░░░ referencing earlier which is ░░░░░░░░ having sort of mandated ░░░░░░░░ disclosures for presidents given ░░░░░░░░ amount of power that ░░░░░░░░ have and maybe having ░░░░░░░░ sort of you know ░░░░░░░░ oath mechanism The other ░░░░░░░░ I would say is ░░░░░░░░ know the Democrat Democrats ░░░░░░░░ mock rightly that Republicans ░░░░░░░░ something different about Trump ░░░░░░░░ private than they do ░░░░░░░░ public They don t ░░░░░░░░ the guts to say ░░░░░░░░ And I think This ░░░░░░░░ conclusively shows that Democrats ░░░░░░░░ and had serious concerns ░░░░░░░░ guys sort of talked ░░░░░░░░ some of the private ░░░░░░░░ but no one was ░░░░░░░░ to go public And ░░░░░░░░ think it shows that ░░░░░░░░ need to listen to ░░░░░░░░ voters and be responsive ░░░░░░░░ them because the Voters ░░░░░░░░ Ahead of the curve ░░░░░░░░ what democratic Leaders were ░░░░░░░░ voters voted for Joe ░░░░░░░░ in 2024 2020 You ░░░░░░░░ the Primary the primary ░░░░░░░░ they I mean that ░░░░░░░░ not a fair primary ░░░░░░░░ mean they changed the ░░░░░░░░ of the states They ░░░░░░░░ t allow for any ░░░░░░░░ And the Chairman of ░░░░░░░░ Wisconsin Democratic Party tried ░░░░░░░░ keep Dean Phillips off ░░░░░░░░ ballot That went all ░░░░░░░░ way up to the ░░░░░░░░ Supreme Court to put ░░░░░░░░ on the ballot But ░░░░░░░░ mean did you ever ░░░░░░░░ a poll though that ░░░░░░░░ s what I m ░░░░░░░░ I don t know ░░░░░░░░ it s so much ░░░░░░░░ a conspiracy As Democrats ░░░░░░░░ at the fact that ░░░░░░░░ was way ahead in ░░░░░░░░ polls we never saw ░░░░░░░░ poll that suggested certainly ░░░░░░░░ that Dean Phillips could ░░░░░░░░ a close race or ░░░░░░░░ Whitmer or or anybody ░░░░░░░░ Well nobody s alleging ░░░░░░░░ because Joe Biden didn ░░░░░░░░ have a serious primary ░░░░░░░░ that that was a ░░░░░░░░ That s just incumbency ░░░░░░░░ the protection Right Exactly ░░░░░░░░ s not that s ░░░░░░░░ part of it But ░░░░░░░░ would argue although Alex ░░░░░░░░ point is correct That ░░░░░░░░ Democratic Party tried to ░░░░░░░░ sure that that was ░░░░░░░░ uncompetitive as possible but ░░░░░░░░ s not abnormal I ░░░░░░░░ the question is why ░░░░░░░░ people who had serious ░░░░░░░░ about whether or not ░░░░░░░░ Biden should run for ░░░░░░░░ why Were they so ░░░░░░░░ And who were those ░░░░░░░░ people inside the White ░░░░░░░░ We have Anita Dunn ░░░░░░░░ in 2023 you know ░░░░░░░░ we sure this is ░░░░░░░░ good idea Jeff Zients ░░░░░░░░ the chief of staff ░░░░░░░░ he s surprised that ░░░░░░░░ know having come from ░░░░░░░░ capital he surprised there ░░░░░░░░ been no stress testing ░░░░░░░░ this idea John Anzalone ░░░░░░░░ pollster For Biden who ░░░░░░░░ been with him since ░░░░░░░░ 1988 campaign for 1987 ░░░░░░░░ guess he never made ░░░░░░░░ to 88 like comes ░░░░░░░░ and says let s ░░░░░░░░ some polling on this ░░░░░░░░ s let s find ░░░░░░░░ whether or not this ░░░░░░░░ a good idea what ░░░░░░░░ advantages and disadvantages are ░░░░░░░░ Anita Dunn says to ░░░░░░░░ there s no polling ░░░░░░░░ decision s been made ░░░░░░░░ mean why Was this ░░░░░░░░ with very little process ░░░░░░░░ conversation Allowed to continue ░░░░░░░░ then when people saw ░░░░░░░░ behind the scenes and ░░░░░░░░ have one very compelling ░░░░░░░░ you were you were ░░░░░░░░ Ireland when President Biden ░░░░░░░░ in Ireland in April ░░░░░░░░ There s a very ░░░░░░░░ scene with congressman quigley ░░░░░░░░ Joe Biden Behind the ░░░░░░░░ melting away unable to ░░░░░░░░ function And in reminds ░░░░░░░░ in a very moving ░░░░░░░░ because this is a ░░░░░░░░ Let s remember that ░░░░░░░░ is a tragedy This ░░░░░░░░ sad It reminds him ░░░░░░░░ his dad who died ░░░░░░░░ parkinson s right Why ░░░░░░░░ the why was there ░░░░░░░░ little incentive for anybody ░░░░░░░░ say anything about I ░░░░░░░░ t know that this ░░░░░░░░ is up for the ░░░░░░░░ at the very least ░░░░░░░░ running for reelection Not ░░░░░░░░ mention can he be ░░░░░░░░ in January 2029 Is ░░░░░░░░ anybody At this table ░░░░░░░░ thinks that he could ░░░░░░░░ functioning president until January ░░░░░░░░ Yeah Well so let ░░░░░░░░ talk about you talked ░░░░░░░░ Ireland and we talked ░░░░░░░░ what the Democrats can ░░░░░░░░ Let s talk about ░░░░░░░░ you can learn and ░░░░░░░░ I can learn I ░░░░░░░░ Biden in Ireland I ░░░░░░░░ to two events there ░░░░░░░░ day They had a ░░░░░░░░ I was exhausted I ░░░░░░░░ Biden did Six of ░░░░░░░░ complained That day Very ░░░░░░░░ good I called home ░░░░░░░░ god I m I ░░░░░░░░ like throwing up on ░░░░░░░░ side of the road ░░░░░░░░ s like this is ░░░░░░░░ know but but winding ░░░░░░░░ around Biden does six ░░░░░░░░ And so I go ░░░░░░░░ from that I seem ░░░░░░░░ next day I interview ░░░░░░░░ He s you know ░░░░░░░░ s he s he ░░░░░░░░ doing well He has ░░░░░░░░ hero s reception in ░░░░░░░░ I you know I ░░░░░░░░ told you about going ░░░░░░░░ and talking to him ░░░░░░░░ two and a half ░░░░░░░░ hours inside the White ░░░░░░░░ far beyond cogent I ░░░░░░░░ really has a better ░░░░░░░░ has a grasp of ░░░░░░░░ politics in a way ░░░░░░░░ only somebody who s ░░░░░░░░ doing it since he ░░░░░░░░ 29 years old Sure ░░░░░░░░ get phone calls at ░░░░░░░░ where the guy is ░░░░░░░░ pounding me because of ░░░░░░░░ eds that I wrote ░░░░░░░░ etc So you know ░░░░░░░░ I said that that ░░░░░░░░ was Biden at his ░░░░░░░░ his best Sure That ░░░░░░░░ what I saw I ░░░░░░░░ t doubt other people ░░░░░░░░ I was obviously wrong ░░░░░░░░ I m not sure ░░░░░░░░ my takeaway is here ░░░░░░░░ next time But if ░░░░░░░░ re around a guy ░░░░░░░░ hours and hours and ░░░░░░░░ I guess the question ░░░░░░░░ what s the takeaway ░░░░░░░░ What did you learn ░░░░░░░░ what did you pick ░░░░░░░░ up in real time ░░░░░░░░ Well I just I ░░░░░░░░ what everybody else saw ░░░░░░░░ I saw what everybody ░░░░░░░░ saw the stumbles in ░░░░░░░░ of the camera and ░░░░░░░░ But I saw him ░░░░░░░░ Person in for the ░░░░░░░░ of the Union luncheon ░░░░░░░░ they do with anchors ░░░░░░░░ early 2023 And then ░░░░░░░░ didn t see him ░░░░░░░░ person Other than that ░░░░░░░░ will say two things ░░░░░░░░ of them is there ░░░░░░░░ more moments of nonfunctioning ░░░░░░░░ behind the scenes than ░░░░░░░░ were privy to that ░░░░░░░░ that we saw than ░░░░░░░░ we saw If there ░░░░░░░░ two Joe Biden s ░░░░░░░░ s the one that ░░░░░░░░ saw that you just ░░░░░░░░ and then there s ░░░░░░░░ one who s nonfunctioning ░░░░░░░░ what we saw at ░░░░░░░░ debate night can t ░░░░░░░░ his train of thought ░░░░░░░░ t come up with ░░░░░░░░ can t remember dates ░░░░░░░░ you listen to in ░░░░░░░░ her report or he ░░░░░░░░ like unsure of when ░░░░░░░░ son deployed unsure of ░░░░░░░░ his son died Tragic ░░░░░░░░ But he really honestly ░░░░░░░░ t know those dates ░░░░░░░░ nonfunctioning Biden reared his ░░░░░░░░ more and more and ░░░░░░░░ Now one thing in ░░░░░░░░ specific case Joe our ░░░░░░░░ indicates that Joe Biden ░░░░░░░░ as you know is ░░░░░░░░ frequent viewer of the ░░░░░░░░ saw when David Ignatius ░░░░░░░░ that column in I ░░░░░░░░ August 2023 saying that ░░░░░░░░ Biden should not run ░░░░░░░░ reelection because of what ░░░░░░░░ had been hearing Right ░░░░░░░░ he came on this ░░░░░░░░ and you guys had ░░░░░░░░ robust conversation about this ░░░░░░░░ largely agreed that you ░░░░░░░░ been hearing things about ░░░░░░░░ but that there was ░░░░░░░░ no alternative that Kamala ░░░░░░░░ was not up to ░░░░░░░░ job That s what ░░░░░░░░ were telling you behind ░░░░░░░░ scenes Joe Biden saw ░░░░░░░░ Joe Biden said to ░░░░░░░░ That he wanted to ░░░░░░░░ You that you were ░░░░░░░░ and he focused on ░░░░░░░░ like you were a ░░░░░░░░ like you were farmers ░░░░░░░░ Iowa like you were ░░░░░░░░ kiwanis club in New ░░░░░░░░ And he Made sure ░░░░░░░░ you thought he made ░░░░░░░░ that you thought differently ░░░░░░░░ think he did this ░░░░░░░░ a couple people I ░░░░░░░░ he did it with ░░░░░░░░ He might have done ░░░░░░░░ with Evan Osnos He ░░░░░░░░ that there were people ░░░░░░░░ had to be convinced ░░░░░░░░ he was fine And ░░░░░░░░ and he tried to ░░░░░░░░ that to you I ░░░░░░░░ also say Just an ░░░░░░░░ all old people Some ░░░░░░░░ have good days and ░░░░░░░░ days good hours and ░░░░░░░░ hours And we all ░░░░░░░░ this with our family ░░░░░░░░ those can become predictable ░░░░░░░░ you can sort of ░░░░░░░░ around them And And ░░░░░░░░ I think that s ░░░░░░░░ part Of how you ░░░░░░░░ the thing is Willie ░░░░░░░░ we ve all seen ░░░░░░░░ aging people I will ░░░░░░░░ it is in my ░░░░░░░░ I if he had ░░░░░░░░ days and bad days ░░░░░░░░ after another after another ░░░░░░░░ must have hit on ░░░░░░░░ good days Yeah and ░░░░░░░░ s highly possible Did ░░░░░░░░ hit his windows when ░░░░░░░░ was rested and prepared ░░░░░░░░ whatever was happening that ░░░░░░░░ There was a campaign ░░░░░░░░ For Joe it was ░░░░░░░░ campaign The Biden people ░░░░░░░░ to make sure that ░░░░░░░░ saw Biden At his ░░░░░░░░ What time did you ░░░░░░░░ out with him I ░░░░░░░░ lunch with him But ░░░░░░░░ thing is it was ░░░░░░░░ wasn t it wasn ░░░░░░░░ like they called and ░░░░░░░░ he s okay Hey ░░░░░░░░ come on in It ░░░░░░░░ like It was like ░░░░░░░░ know can you come ░░░░░░░░ three weeks from now ░░░░░░░░ So it s not ░░░░░░░░ they they were sitting ░░░░░░░░ going oh we ve ░░░░░░░░ him on a good ░░░░░░░░ It was Yeah it ░░░░░░░░ have been time of ░░░░░░░░ Might have been definitely ░░░░░░░░ of the day I ░░░░░░░░ to ask you about ░░░░░░░░ debate because you were ░░░░░░░░ You I remember you ░░░░░░░░ a closer look than ░░░░░░░░ You and Dana Bash ░░░░░░░░ this whole thing obviously ░░░░░░░░ open and everything you ░░░░░░░░ reporting in the book ░░░░░░░░ undeniable to the public ░░░░░░░░ just to people behind ░░░░░░░░ scenes Your conversation with ░░░░░░░░ president at the debate ░░░░░░░░ write about in the ░░░░░░░░ And then for both ░░░░░░░░ you what happened in ░░░░░░░░ immediate aftermath like that ░░░░░░░░ among Democrats and in ░░░░░░░░ White House So I ░░░░░░░░ now watched the debate ░░░░░░░░ TV Or on my ░░░░░░░░ because for the book ░░░░░░░░ write about the write ░░░░░░░░ Book and I will ░░░░░░░░ you that it Was ░░░░░░░░ On TV and it ░░░░░░░░ worse in person It ░░░░░░░░ worse in person It ░░░░░░░░ disturbing We have little ░░░░░░░░ that we can use ░░░░░░░░ write to the control ░░░░░░░░ I don t know ░░░░░░░░ this isn t like ░░░░░░░░ I have on my ░░░░░░░░ every day I know ░░░░░░░░ should really get it ░░░░░░░░ s fantastic It is ░░░░░░░░ But they only they ░░░░░░░░ t they don t ░░░░░░░░ to hear from us ░░░░░░░░ think that s what ░░░░░░░░ is That s why ░░░░░░░░ don t have all ░░░░░░░░ ipads They just want ░░░░░░░░ to rap But this ░░░░░░░░ t exactly Rap rap ░░░░░░░░ I wrote like when ░░░░░░░░ that first answer where ░░░░░░░░ said we finally beat ░░░░░░░░ I wrote because I ░░░░░░░░ t know who was ░░░░░░░░ the control room but ░░░░░░░░ wrote holy smokes because ░░░░░░░░ was obvious that there ░░░░░░░░ a big this was ░░░░░░░░ was just historically bad ░░░░░░░░ presidential the worst presidential ░░░░░░░░ performance in the history ░░░░░░░░ presidential debate Dana wrote ░░░░░░░░ note to me saying ░░░░░░░░ just lost the election ░░░░░░░░ the debate he and ░░░░░░░░ Lady Biden came down ░░░░░░░░ where we were and ░░░░░░░░ didn t seem to ░░░░░░░░ any idea of what ░░░░░░░░ happened Or he didn ░░░░░░░░ at least And he ░░░░░░░░ for having a cold ░░░░░░░░ he said can you ░░░░░░░░ something about can you ░░░░░░░░ how much this guy ░░░░░░░░ about Donald Trump who ░░░░░░░░ probably in the air ░░░░░░░░ then He went on ░░░░░░░░ left immediately I it ░░░░░░░░ so awkward I didn ░░░░░░░░ know what to say ░░░░░░░░ was trying to make ░░░░░░░░ talk I had Phillies ░░░░░░░░ on and I showed ░░░░░░░░ to the First Lady ░░░░░░░░ she s from Willow ░░░░░░░░ But I didn t ░░░░░░░░ what to say Then ░░░░░░░░ left He goes something ░░░░░░░░ I guess we ll ░░░░░░░░ see what the commentators ░░░░░░░░ to say And then ░░░░░░░░ went to our reception ░░░░░░░░ reception But just like ░░░░░░░░ the people that put ░░░░░░░░ debate together and we ░░░░░░░░ watching all the shows ░░░░░░░░ this is actually this ░░░░░░░░ in the book The ░░░░░░░░ from MSNBC I thought ░░░░░░░░ really telling because everybody ░░░░░░░░ just shocked Everybody had ░░░░░░░░ same reaction you guys ░░░░░░░░ the next morning which ░░░░░░░░ just like I can ░░░░░░░░ even believe this What ░░░░░░░░ that This is a ░░░░░░░░ Democrats are freaking out ░░░░░░░░ made me feel like ░░░░░░░░ I didn t make ░░░░░░░░ up So So Alex ░░░░░░░░ me ask you the ░░░░░░░░ mystery for me and ░░░░░░░░ on on the right ░░░░░░░░ suggest that it shouldn ░░░░░░░░ be a mystery but ░░░░░░░░ enduring mystery to me ░░░░░░░░ what happened during that ░░░░░░░░ where I talked to ░░░░░░░░ that talked to him ░░░░░░░░ the day that were ░░░░░░░░ him I talked to ░░░░░░░░ person five minutes before ░░░░░░░░ debate that had just ░░░░░░░░ with him I said ░░░░░░░░ s he doing He ░░░░░░░░ his voice is gravelly ░░░░░░░░ he sounds good He ░░░░░░░░ I think he s ░░░░░░░░ to do a good ░░░░░░░░ Five minutes later that ░░░░░░░░ called me up saying ░░░░░░░░ he have a stroke ░░░░░░░░ So you ve you ░░░░░░░░ done the research you ░░░░░░░░ done what happened that ░░░░░░░░ I think over the ░░░░░░░░ of especially Late 2023 ░░░░░░░░ throughout 2024 there had ░░░░░░░░ been two Biden s ░░░░░░░░ the ratio of you ░░░░░░░░ nonfunctioning or you know ░░░░░░░░ Biden had begun to ░░░░░░░░ And also it became ░░░░░░░░ and the bad hours ░░░░░░░░ worse And I think ░░░░░░░░ the course of 2024 ░░░░░░░░ White House was increasingly ░░░░░░░░ to manage his schedule ░░░░░░░░ order to obscure and ░░░░░░░░ that Biden and they ░░░░░░░░ their luck ran out ░░░░░░░░ think that Biden that ░░░░░░░░ saw on the debate ░░░░░░░░ it was not the ░░░░░░░░ time that people behind ░░░░░░░░ scenes had seen him ░░░░░░░░ that way but it ░░░░░░░░ the first time the ░░░░░░░░ Act and one of ░░░░░░░░ other things that s ░░░░░░░░ important and this does ░░░░░░░░ to get to the ░░░░░░░░ of this all is ░░░░░░░░ aides told us that ░░░░░░░░ the two moments in ░░░░░░░░ he really seemed to ░░░░░░░░ the most in terms ░░░░░░░░ this nonfunctioning Biden his ░░░░░░░░ just draining out of ░░░░░░░░ body was The summer ░░░░░░░░ 2023 when Hunter Biden ░░░░░░░░ plea deal fell apart ░░░░░░░░ then June before the ░░░░░░░░ 2024 when Hunter Biden ░░░░░░░░ convicted of a crime ░░░░░░░░ there was very real ░░░░░░░░ of him going to ░░░░░░░░ And the reason is ░░░░░░░░ just how sad it ░░░░░░░░ for the family but ░░░░░░░░ at this point President ░░░░░░░░ has lost two children ░░░░░░░░ and then his daughter ░░░░░░░░ that horrible 1972 accident ░░░░░░░░ Hunter Biden was saying ░░░░░░░░ along the lines of ░░░░░░░░ re trying to make ░░░░░░░░ relapse They meaning the ░░░░░░░░ they re trying to ░░░░░░░░ me relapse They re ░░░░░░░░ to make me kill ░░░░░░░░ They re trying to ░░░░░░░░ know and President Biden ░░░░░░░░ a very real and ░░░░░░░░ fear that he was ░░░░░░░░ to lose a third ░░░░░░░░ and that drained life ░░░░░░░░ him And that was ░░░░░░░░ impactful The new book ░░░░░░░░ sin President Biden s ░░░░░░░░ Its cover up and ░░░░░░░░ disastrous choice to run ░░░░░░░░ is on sale now ░░░░░░░░ Jake Tapper and Alex ░░░░░░░░ thank you very much ░░░░░░░░ coming on this morning ░░░░░░░░ guys Great to be ░░░░░░░░ Thank you Appreciate it ░░░░░░░░ right.