RUSH TRANSCRIPT Attack last ░░░░░░░░ gave rise to recent ░░░░░░░░ Joining me now is ░░░░░░░░ agarwal the editor in ░░░░░░░░ of foreign policy and ░░░░░░░░ former CNN new delhi ░░░░░░░░ chief Good to see ░░░░░░░░ ravi Really interesting to ░░░░░░░░ how the U S ░░░░░░░░ to get involved Jd ░░░░░░░░ if you remember made ░░░░░░░░ statement when the whole ░░░░░░░░ first began saying look ░░░░░░░░ have nothing to do ░░░░░░░░ this You guys should ░░░░░░░░ calm down have direct ░░░░░░░░ but we have no ░░░░░░░░ in getting involved What ░░░░░░░░ it mean that Finally ░░░░░░░░ United States realized that ░░░░░░░░ had to get involved ░░░░░░░░ something happened and all ░░░░░░░░ this moved so quickly ░░░░░░░░ this entire conflict has ░░░░░░░░ lasted about four days ░░░░░░░░ when India escalated around ░░░░░░░░ Thursday and Friday and ░░░░░░░░ to attack Pakistani military ░░░░░░░░ remember it went further ░░░░░░░░ Pakistani territory than at ░░░░░░░░ point since 1971 And ░░░░░░░░ reporting indicates that some ░░░░░░░░ its strikes went close ░░░░░░░░ one of Pakistan s ░░░░░░░░ command centers and that ░░░░░░░░ have been a signal ░░░░░░░░ the United States to ░░░░░░░░ like islamabad is cornered ░░░░░░░░ if they don t ░░░░░░░░ involved this could escalate ░░░░░░░░ to the unthinkable option ░░░░░░░░ is either side using ░░░░░░░░ To me this is ░░░░░░░░ window into the kind ░░░░░░░░ world we may be ░░░░░░░░ You know a much ░░░░░░░░ messy world where the ░░░░░░░░ the normal restraints no ░░░░░░░░ apply It used to ░░░░░░░░ that all these indo ░░░░░░░░ conflicts were along the ░░░░░░░░ of control Now they ░░░░░░░░ sending drones into each ░░░░░░░░ s cities and also ░░░░░░░░ place where the United ░░░░░░░░ does not have the ░░░░░░░░ influence it once had ░░░░░░░░ the the key story ░░░░░░░░ that we have to ░░░░░░░░ in is Pakistan is ░░░░░░░░ essentially a reliable ally ░░░░░░░░ China s that s ░░░░░░░░ And part of what ░░░░░░░░ story appears to be ░░░░░░░░ that the Chinese provided ░░░░░░░░ Pakistanis with military equipment ░░░░░░░░ did better than many ░░░░░░░░ it would Yeah exactly ░░░░░░░░ so that would have ░░░░░░░░ on the initial day ░░░░░░░░ attacks on Tuesday night ░░░░░░░░ India when reports indicate ░░░░░░░░ some Indian fighter jets ░░░░░░░░ have been shot down ░░░░░░░░ of course denies this ░░░░░░░░ there s a proxy ░░░░░░░░ element here in that ░░░░░░░░ are Chinese fighter jets ░░░░░░░░ French fighter jets There ░░░░░░░░ drones the likes of ░░░░░░░░ we ve never seen ░░░░░░░░ in this conflict But ░░░░░░░░ know And the media ░░░░░░░░ it s everyone has ░░░░░░░░ own version of truth ░░░░░░░░ We have no idea ░░░░░░░░ actually happened I mean ░░░░░░░░ ve been covering this ░░░░░░░░ a while I don ░░░░░░░░ know who to trust ░░░░░░░░ Indian side says one ░░░░░░░░ The Pakistani side says ░░░░░░░░ Their respective media are ░░░░░░░░ parroting government lines and ░░░░░░░░ s very hard to ░░░░░░░░ through and understand what ░░░░░░░░ happened Historians will have ░░░░░░░░ better sense of this ░░░░░░░░ I will say we ░░░░░░░░ in a more dangerous ░░░░░░░░ today than we were ░░░░░░░░ month ago And the ░░░░░░░░ is that these skirmishes ░░░░░░░░ happened for quite a ░░░░░░░░ But every time India ░░░░░░░░ upped the ante and ░░░░░░░░ time it has gone ░░░░░░░░ into Pakistani territory than ░░░░░░░░ any point since they ░░░░░░░░ nuclear powers Why do ░░░░░░░░ think India is emboldened ░░░░░░░░ felt well its economy ░░░░░░░░ is 11 times bigger ░░░░░░░░ Pakistan s in 1999 ░░░░░░░░ was only five times ░░░░░░░░ So India feels more ░░░░░░░░ It feels that these ░░░░░░░░ border attacks have increased ░░░░░░░░ it needs to do ░░░░░░░░ decisive But then most ░░░░░░░░ all at the root ░░░░░░░░ this problem is what ░░░░░░░░ The fact that its ░░░░░░░░ is unable to control ░░░░░░░░ on its side of ░░░░░░░░ border which India wants ░░░░░░░░ change This is the ░░░░░░░░ thing that hussain haqqani ░░░░░░░░ former ambassador wrote eloquently ░░░░░░░░ which is the Pakistani ░░░░░░░░ derives It has made ░░░░░░░░ alliance with jihadi groups ░░░░░░░░ I think in this ░░░░░░░░ moment the Pakistani military ░░░░░░░░ it was not popular ░░░░░░░░ had jailed the most ░░░░░░░░ man in Pakistan Imran ░░░░░░░░ who was prime minister ░░░░░░░░ taking on the Pakistani ░░░░░░░░ And maybe they did ░░░░░░░░ as a way to ░░░░░░░░ the flag rally the ░░░░░░░░ around a military that ░░░░░░░░ gotten very unpopular It ░░░░░░░░ be And the thing ░░░░░░░░ again like if you ░░░░░░░░ at what both sides ░░░░░░░░ from this I think ░░░░░░░░ Pakistan its military wants ░░░░░░░░ up the defense budget ░░░░░░░░ wants to prove that ░░░░░░░░ can sort of ward ░░░░░░░░ a much bigger stronger ░░░░░░░░ But then most of ░░░░░░░░ for the military they ░░░░░░░░ to perpetuate themselves And ░░░░░░░░ ultimately is is what ░░░░░░░░ re looking to do ░░░░░░░░ Pakistani general however is ░░░░░░░░ a wild card He ░░░░░░░░ more fundamentalist more religiously ░░░░░░░░ than previous Pakistani generals ░░░░░░░░ s also a former ░░░░░░░░ chief So if anyone ░░░░░░░░ have knowledge Imran Khan ░░░░░░░░ Exactly Which is again ░░░░░░░░ I come back to ░░░░░░░░ root of this is ░░░░░░░░ don t want a ░░░░░░░░ popular democratic leader to ░░░░░░░░ to be prime minister ░░░░░░░░ Pakistan Exactly This will ░░░░░░░░ again Ravi agarwal always ░░░░░░░░ pleasure Next on gps ░░░░░░░░ has