ADL’s Greenblatt: ‘It Is a Good Thing that President Trump Is Leaning In’ and Going After Universities to Fight Anti-Semitism

SORKIN We got to ░░░░░░░░ to the news of ░░░░░░░░ day GREENBLATT OK SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ me what you think ░░░░░░░░ Harvard Tell me what ░░░░░░░░ think about the Trump ░░░░░░░░ s letter to them ░░░░░░░░ the reaction from the ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Look the reality ░░░░░░░░ there are deep systemic ░░░░░░░░ not just at Harvard ░░░░░░░░ at all of these ░░░░░░░░ and it s rampant ░░░░░░░░ the faculty lounge it ░░░░░░░░ apparent like in the ░░░░░░░░ Yard You can read ░░░░░░░░ in the Crimson all ░░░░░░░░ it SORKIN Do you ░░░░░░░░ what the Trump Administration ░░░░░░░░ done and the way ░░░░░░░░ re doing it GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ am really glad that ░░░░░░░░ Trump Administration is leaning ░░░░░░░░ and holding the perpetrators ░░░░░░░░ Now the question becomes ░░░░░░░░ do you do in ░░░░░░░░ way that is strategic ░░░░░░░░ addresses the systemic issues ░░░░░░░░ not sort of detrimental ░░░░░░░░ the whole enterprise of ░░░░░░░░ education That s what ░░░░░░░░ ve got to figure ░░░░░░░░ QUICK What was the ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN And what do ░░░░░░░░ think about that QUICK ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Well SORKIN You ░░░░░░░░ to make I m ░░░░░░░░ you re either for ░░░░░░░░ or you re against ░░░░░░░░ We can get into ░░░░░░░░ nuances of which parts ░░░░░░░░ but I m trying ░░░░░░░░ understand KERNEN It s ░░░░░░░░ that yeah it s ░░░░░░░░ that easy SORKIN Yeah ░░░░░░░░ just I m trying ░░░░░░░░ understand KERNEN It s ░░░░░░░░ that easy GREENBLATT Yeah ░░░░░░░░ look I think it ░░░░░░░░ complicated KERNEN Yeah GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ at ADL we focus ░░░░░░░░ the nuance to be ░░░░░░░░ but make no mistake ░░░░░░░░ is a good thing ░░░░░░░░ President Trump is leaning ░░░░░░░░ It is a good ░░░░░░░░ that the people who ░░░░░░░░ on their student visas ░░░░░░░░ do egregious contact to ░░░░░░░░ let s note one ░░░░░░░░ right here and right ░░░░░░░░ For 18 months we ░░░░░░░░ not get these university ░░░░░░░░ to move effectively enough ░░░░░░░░ s why I released ░░░░░░░░ report card SORKIN Right ░░░░░░░░ Suddenly when the Trump ░░░░░░░░ threatened to pull the ░░░░░░░░ they all moved QUICK ░░░░░░░░ that s the interesting ░░░░░░░░ because I agree with ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Yeah QUICK A ░░░░░░░░ of what you just ░░░░░░░░ a hundred percent if ░░░░░░░░ re you know not ░░░░░░░░ the rules of your ░░░░░░░░ you shouldn t have ░░░░░░░░ visa GREENBLATT Yeah of ░░░░░░░░ QUICK It s a ░░░░░░░░ to be here GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ course QUICK I d ░░░░░░░░ to see change at ░░░░░░░░ universities I do think ░░░░░░░░ the hiring the way ░░░░░░░░ go about it I ░░░░░░░░ think that the idea ░░░░░░░░ you have tenure for ░░░░░░░░ is part of the ░░░░░░░░ on these things GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ hmm QUICK But I ░░░░░░░░ t want to see ░░░░░░░░ funds pulled as a ░░░░░░░░ I don t either ░░░░░░░░ don t want to ░░░░░░░░ life saving research stopped ░░░░░░░░ Right Have you GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ don t want to ░░░░░░░░ people in lab coats ░░░░░░░░ work ended because of ░░░░░░░░ lunatics on the humanity ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN Can I ask ░░░░░░░░ a question KERNEN Go ░░░░░░░░ go back go back ░░░░░░░░ whether Harvard ought to ░░░░░░░░ that if your entire ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Yeah KERNEN is ░░░░░░░░ around hiring and promoting ░░░░░░░░ certain viewpoint if you ░░░░░░░░ t be a conservative ░░░░░░░░ be hired there if ░░░░░░░░ have to be woke ░░░░░░░░ it s just from ░░░░░░░░ ground up that s ░░░░░░░░ you ever see GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN is it see ░░░░░░░░ problem is that Trump ░░░░░░░░ problem is that Trump ░░░░░░░░ problem is that the ░░░░░░░░ Administration might get shot ░░░░░░░░ in court QUICK Yeah ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN They may not ░░░░░░░░ able to do it ░░░░░░░░ Right KERNEN this way ░░░░░░░░ it breeds it s ░░░░░░░░ almost a breeding ground ░░░░░░░░ for for how this ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT There is no ░░░░░░░░ we need viewpoint diversity ░░░░░░░░ these campuses in the ░░░░░░░░ lounge and in the ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN Right When the ░░░░░░░░ says We re going ░░░░░░░░ I don t mean ░░░░░░░░ president the president of ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Harvard Alan Garber ░░░░░░░░ says I m going ░░░░░░░░ push back I m ░░░░░░░░ to fight and everybody ░░░░░░░░ Oh God thank God ░░░░░░░░ s fighting this Fighting ░░░░░░░░ that anti Semitism can ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN But but can ░░░░░░░░ just I just GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN I just want ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN But do you ░░░░░░░░ what I mean crosstalk ░░░░░░░░ I know I KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ is the enemy Who ░░░░░░░░ the enemy that they ░░░░░░░░ fighting against SORKIN The ░░░░░░░░ is in this instance ░░░░░░░░ the overreach of the ░░░░░░░░ the way the government ░░░░░░░░ gone about this And ░░░░░░░░ m Jewish you know ░░░░░░░░ views about this I ░░░░░░░░ say it over and ░░░░░░░░ again We need to ░░░░░░░░ violence We need to ░░░░░░░░ intimidation KERNEN Then you ░░░░░░░░ need to start SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ the disruption of school ░░░░░░░░ you you might need ░░░░░░░░ start at at the ░░░░░░░░ cause SORKIN That s ░░░░░░░░ that that s the ░░░░░░░░ two and three So ░░░░░░░░ else the idea crosstalk ░░░░░░░░ But Joe you said ░░░░░░░░ yourself that the courts ░░░░░░░░ t stand for it ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN The idea KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ it that it doesn ░░░░░░░░ work SORKIN Right but ░░░░░░░░ Leaning in even if ░░░░░░░░ re going to lose ░░░░░░░░ Khan leaned in for ░░░░░░░░ years SORKIN But but ░░░░░░░░ I just something QUICK ░░░░░░░░ I don t Lina ░░░░░░░░ was effective KERNEN She ░░░░░░░░ in SORKIN Your your ░░░░░░░░ your organization GREENBLATT Yeah ░░░░░░░░ is a 501 c ░░░░░░░░ correct GREENBLATT Of course ░░░░░░░░ are SORKIN OK If ░░░░░░░░ told you that this ░░░░░░░░ didn t like you ░░░░░░░░ whatever reason and said ░░░░░░░░ know what Screw you ░░░░░░░░ the way you took ░░░░░░░░ PPE money which you ░░░░░░░░ So you re on ░░░░░░░░ government dole I am ░░░░░░░░ taking away your tax ░░░░░░░░ status because I think ░░░░░░░░ you re a political ░░░░░░░░ And by the way ░░░░░░░░ I will tell you ░░░░░░░░ I think you re ░░░░░░░░ political operation I think ░░░░░░░░ are Should you get ░░░░░░░░ you get a tax ░░░░░░░░ status No you shouldn ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT But but wait ░░░░░░░░ second SORKIN So now ░░░░░░░░ s get into a ░░░░░░░░ debate about who should ░░░░░░░░ what I m just ░░░░░░░░ to you that once ░░░░░░░░ go down this road ░░░░░░░░ is a very very ░░░░░░░░ place And I think ░░░░░░░░ could do tremendous damage ░░░░░░░░ Yeah SORKIN not only ░░░░░░░░ the education system but ░░░░░░░░ philanthropy to the way ░░░░░░░░ all operate as a ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Yeah So look ░░░░░░░░ s a lot to ░░░░░░░░ in that So number ░░░░░░░░ 501 c 3 organizations ░░░░░░░░ t engage in partisan ░░░░░░░░ activities So we re ░░░░░░░░ in the public opinion ░░░░░░░░ I I understand But ░░░░░░░░ know what I GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ vs Democrats we don ░░░░░░░░ get on either side ░░░░░░░░ by the way and ░░░░░░░░ s what and that ░░░░░░░░ what Harvard would say ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Right SORKIN Harvard ░░░░░░░░ say they re not ░░░░░░░░ political operation GREENBLATT Correct ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN But guess what ░░░░░░░░ what The president s ░░░░░░░░ it is GREENBLATT Mm ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN OK And what ░░░░░░░░ m saying is if ░░░░░░░░ president decided that you ░░░░░░░░ a political operation I ░░░░░░░░ say by the way ░░░░░░░░ think you are a ░░░░░░░░ operation just to be ░░░░░░░░ percent totally blunt GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ hmm SORKIN about what ░░░░░░░░ are GREENBLATT Mm hmm ░░░░░░░░ I don t believe ░░░░░░░░ it s a total ░░░░░░░░ both sides all the ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Yeah SORKIN Changes ░░░░░░░░ whatever is going on ░░░░░░░░ point is I don ░░░░░░░░ think that you want ░░░░░░░░ president or an administration ░░░░░░░░ be able to decide ░░░░░░░░ you are political or ░░░░░░░░ political because they have ░░░░░░░░ view QUICK But they ░░░░░░░░ not going to have ░░░░░░░░ It s going to ░░░░░░░░ through the court system ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT But but but ░░░░░░░░ but wait a second ░░░░░░░░ QUICK They re not ░░░░░░░░ to be able to ░░░░░░░░ that GREENBLATT Harvard has ░░░░░░░░ obligation to protect the ░░░░░░░░ rights of their Jewish ░░░░░░░░ QUICK Yeah GREENBLATT Harvard ░░░░░░░░ Columbia SORKIN A hundred ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT which they failed ░░░░░░░░ do effectively SORKIN A ░░░░░░░░ percent GREENBLATT for months ░░░░░░░░ months and months QUICK ░░░░░░░░ Jonathan you re in ░░░░░░░░ of the administration pulling ░░░░░░░░ and threatening with funds ░░░░░░░░ wanted them to use ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT It is a ░░░░░░░░ rare and and serious ░░░░░░░░ And what I want ░░░░░░░░ them to hear the ░░░░░░░░ things you need to ░░░░░░░░ They correct it and ░░░░░░░░ the funds get reinstalled ░░░░░░░░ But but but can ░░░░░░░░ say I want you ░░░░░░░░ scream from the rooftops ░░░░░░░░ do I think you ░░░░░░░░ I think politicians should ░░░░░░░░ from the rooftops GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN I think donors ░░░░░░░░ pull their money All ░░░░░░░░ those things That s ░░░░░░░░ free market GREENBLATT Yeah ░░░░░░░░ I think once you ░░░░░░░░ the government deciding what ░░░░░░░░ happening and it s ░░░░░░░░ really the government in ░░░░░░░░ case it s an ░░░░░░░░ order from from one ░░░░░░░░ or an administration that ░░░░░░░░ when it gets very ░░░░░░░░ crosstalk QUICK But but ░░░░░░░░ it s going to ░░░░░░░░ through the court system ░░░░░░░░ s not going to ░░░░░░░░ allowed to not get ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN Well we ll ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Well here s ░░░░░░░░ thing It will go ░░░░░░░░ the courts QUICK Yeah ░░░░░░░░ but that will take ░░░░░░░░ long time It s ░░░░░░░░ It s complicated It ░░░░░░░░ going to make it ░░░░░░░░ difficult for Harvard to ░░░░░░░░ the way they have ░░░░░░░░ the past QUICK But ░░░░░░░░ is going to go ░░░░░░░░ the courts KERNEN They ░░░░░░░░ 55 billion in their ░░░░░░░░ We re 37 trillion ░░░░░░░░ debt Why we have ░░░░░░░░ why do taxpayers need ░░░░░░░░ fund an institution that ░░░░░░░░ doing such egregious things ░░░░░░░░ other respects GREENBLATT Look ░░░░░░░░ again we come back ░░░░░░░░ the government has the ░░░░░░░░ to say KERNEN Yeah ░░░░░░░░ We re going to ░░░░░░░░ you money but you ░░░░░░░░ certain obligations KERNEN Exactly ░░░░░░░░ The Title Six obligates ░░░░░░░░ to protect the Jewish ░░░░░░░░ But I will just ░░░░░░░░ Joe like life saving ░░░░░░░░ like breakthrough innovation our ░░░░░░░░ education system is the ░░░░░░░░ of the world KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ is GREENBLATT Economic innovation ░░░░░░░░ They got 55 they ░░░░░░░░ it s 30 times ░░░░░░░░ it was what we ░░░░░░░░ And that s fine ░░░░░░░░ they have 55 billion ░░░░░░░░ what is that for ░░░░░░░░ they if they had ░░░░░░░░ shortfall for six months ░░░░░░░░ can t cover that ░░░░░░░░ they try and get ░░░░░░░░ act together on these ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Look they ought ░░░░░░░░ be able to cover ░░░░░░░░ for sure There s ░░░░░░░░ question KERNEN And then ░░░░░░░░ s there s other ░░░░░░░░ that say there s ░░░░░░░░ universities that can do ░░░░░░░░ obviously I I mean ░░░░░░░░ did read some of ░░░░░░░░ Some of it s ░░░░░░░░ Some of it s ░░░░░░░░ so good Some of ░░░░░░░░ s throwing crap against ░░░░░░░░ wall It is And ░░░░░░░░ they all get funded ░░░░░░░░ of it s good ░░░░░░░░ there are great universities ░░░░░░░░ I m not saying ░░░░░░░░ the government GREENBLATT Well ░░░░░░░░ can pick who s ░░░░░░░░ to do it but ░░░░░░░░ Caltech SORKIN Look but ░░░░░░░░ s the point The ░░░░░░░░ is if you want ░░░░░░░░ look if you want ░░░░░░░░ have a conversation about ░░░░░░░░ money away from universities ░░░░░░░░ the board that makes ░░░░░░░░ lot of sense to ░░░░░░░░ that debate GREENBLATT You ░░░░░░░░ t KERNEN They have ░░░░░░░░ get in line If ░░░░░░░░ do SORKIN But the ░░░░░░░░ that somehow KERNEN if ░░░░░░░░ change their evil ways ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN Look but hopefully ░░░░░░░░ don t know if ░░░░░░░░ think Harvard s not ░░░░░░░░ the service that they ░░░░░░░░ they re providing The ░░░░░░░░ S government gives a ░░░░░░░░ of money to SpaceX ░░░░░░░░ hopefully it provides a ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN Yeah SORKIN to ░░░░░░░░ U S government And ░░░░░░░░ don t give as ░░░░░░░░ money to Blue Origin ░░░░░░░░ the product is not ░░░░░░░░ good yet OK So ░░░░░░░░ s what that product ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Yeah SORKIN If ░░░░░░░░ said to me I ░░░░░░░░ going to give the ░░░░░░░░ to Harvard or give ░░░░░░░░ to a community college ░░░░░░░░ reason you d give ░░░░░░░░ to Harvard is because ░░░░░░░░ now it s providing ░░░░░░░░ better product in terms ░░░░░░░░ the research and development ░░░░░░░░ s hopefully coming out ░░░░░░░░ it That s hopefully ░░░░░░░░ America KERNEN Right But ░░░░░░░░ and SORKIN and ultimately ░░░░░░░░ taxpayers in the country ░░░░░░░░ do you think it ░░░░░░░░ OK if they really ░░░░░░░░ QUICK There is a ░░░░░░░░ great state s schools ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN if they really ░░░░░░░░ allow and actually favor ░░░░░░░░ know applicants that are ░░░░░░░░ extreme anti Semitic I ░░░░░░░░ that seems to be ░░░░░░░░ people that get first ░░░░░░░░ there are other people ░░░░░░░░ are totally excluded SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ of all first of ░░░░░░░░ you re suggesting somehow ░░░░░░░░ entire university every single ░░░░░░░░ is anti Semitic KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ how did it happen ░░░░░░░░ Have you been there ░░░░░░░░ s not that s ░░░░░░░░ what we re talking ░░░░░░░░ here KERNEN I went ░░░░░░░░ went to school there ░░░░░░░░ I m not an ░░░░░░░░ but QUICK You re ░░░░░░░░ you re also talking ░░░░░░░░ the humanities versus the ░░░░░░░░ crosstalk GREENBLATT So look ░░░░░░░░ again I think the ░░░░░░░░ is there are real ░░░░░░░░ how the you know ░░░░░░░░ we ve seen that ░░░░░░░░ The overall culture of ░░░░░░░░ universities GREENBLATT Jewish population ░░░░░░░░ in these schools KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ culture of the university ░░░░░░░░ We need to look ░░░░░░░░ the culture KERNEN Something ░░░░░░░░ wrong in the last ░░░░░░░░ something went wrong in ░░░░░░░░ last 50 years GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ sure KERNEN at the ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT And again Becky ░░░░░░░░ mentioned the tenure issue ░░░░░░░░ Yeah It s it ░░░░░░░░ a big deal GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ if you are a ░░░░░░░░ QUICK You get fired ░░░░░░░░ like harassing your own ░░░░░░░░ I think there s ░░░░░░░░ questions with the tenure ░░░░░░░░ QUICK Right GREENBLATT But ░░░░░░░░ can t be abused ░░░░░░░░ that s what we ░░░░░░░░ talking about here KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT We need due ░░░░░░░░ We need a transparent ░░░░░░░░ Yeah GREENBLATT way that ░░░░░░░░ go about doing this ░░░░░░░░ then again that s ░░░░░░░░ makes sense for all ░░░░░░░░ us KERNEN Go get ░░░░░░░░ at Harvard with a ░░░░░░░░ America Great Again hat ░░░░░░░░ happening GREENBLATT There is ░░░░░░░░ problem when you can ░░░░░░░░ a hide your hide ░░░░░░░░ identity behind a keffiyeh ░░░░░░░░ across the quad but ░░░░░░░░ can t wear a ░░░░░░░░ kind of MAGA hat ░░░░░░░░ You can go in ░░░░░░░░ a t shirt that ░░░░░░░░ Death to the Jews ░░░░░░░░ and get tenure But ░░░░░░░░ can t go in ░░░░░░░░ and and misgender someone ░░░░░░░░ s messed up SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ I hope that that ░░░░░░░░ not the case KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ is It is It ░░░░░░░░ It is Laughter GREENBLATT ░░░░░░░░ they re KERNEN Lean ░░░░░░░░ So what so I ░░░░░░░░ don t know where ░░░░░░░░ stand So you like ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT I like I ░░░░░░░░ it I want it ░░░░░░░░ be done the right ░░░░░░░░ And if it s ░░░░░░░░ the wrong way it ░░░░░░░░ a terrible precedent SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ I m suggesting is ░░░░░░░░ it could be done ░░░░░░░░ right way and it ░░░░░░░░ being done the wrong ░░░░░░░░ crosstalk KERNEN What way ░░░░░░░░ you do it What ░░░░░░░░ would you do it ░░░░░░░░ get real action to ░░░░░░░░ to really because SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ I no you want ░░░░░░░░ know KERNEN OK SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ think you could pull ░░░░░░░░ of the money on ░░░░░░░░ with a very narrow ░░░░░░░░ that says you need ░░░░░░░░ show us that you ░░░░░░░░ eliminating anti Semitism KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN in the context ░░░░░░░░ violence in the context ░░░░░░░░ intimidation and the context ░░░░░░░░ disruption in school KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ re not going into ░░░░░░░░ root cause That s ░░░░░░░░ treating the the SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ second you say that ░░░░░░░░ re going to KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ s like treating the ░░░░░░░░ of cancer without actually ░░░░░░░░ in and SORKIN Well ░░░░░░░░ no To get to ░░░░░░░░ things GREENBLATT Yeah SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ university is going to ░░░░░░░░ to do all sorts ░░░░░░░░ things GREENBLATT That s ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN However the letter ░░░░░░░░ But they haven t ░░░░░░░░ will SORKIN goes much ░░░░░░░░ than that GREENBLATT Yeah ░░░░░░░░ The letter says that ░░░░░░░░ need to they re ░░░░░░░░ to audit how they ░░░░░░░░ hiring how they re ░░░░░░░░ Maybe what it takes ░░░░░░░░ how they re bringing ░░░░░░░░ into school They re ░░░░░░░░ to take that data ░░░░░░░░ the way all that ░░░░░░░░ is going to go ░░░░░░░░ to the government I ░░░░░░░░ there s a whole ░░░░░░░░ of things QUICK Jonathan ░░░░░░░░ By the way on ░░░░░░░░ visa thing just for ░░░░░░░░ second who do you ░░░░░░░░ should be responsible for ░░░░░░░░ It s called the ░░░░░░░░ Department QUICK Yeah SORKIN ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN Right SORKIN why ░░░░░░░░ we sitting here judge ░░░░░░░░ mean I m not ░░░░░░░░ Harvard s great but ░░░░░░░░ m saying KERNEN Right ░░░░░░░░ judging these people who ░░░░░░░░ letting these kids into ░░░░░░░░ the country The State ░░░░░░░░ QUICK And the State ░░░░░░░░ the State Department is ░░░░░░░░ SORKIN Call call Marco ░░░░░░░░ GREENBLATT Right QUICK And ░░░░░░░░ are SORKIN So I ░░░░░░░░ QUICK They re pulling ░░░░░░░░ of these visas KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ s not Rubio Call ░░░░░░░░ Antony Blinken Antony Blinken ░░░░░░░░ it QUICK Jonathan the ░░░░░░░░ students at —“