RUSH TRANSCRIPT Somebody in ░░░░░░░░ group either screwed up ░░░░░░░░ it s a bad ░░░░░░░░ You know it s ░░░░░░░░ bad signal Happens too ░░░░░░░░ it seems to be ░░░░░░░░ he came in with ░░░░░░░░ staffer and it was ░░░░░░░░ accident to what we ░░░░░░░░ tell We ll know ░░░░░░░░ much today I think ░░░░░░░░ we have some pretty ░░░░░░░░ guys checking out the ░░░░░░░░ But it s something ░░░░░░░░ is not a big ░░░░░░░░ Donald Trump appearing there ░░░░░░░░ maybe not understand that ░░░░░░░░ is an app seeming ░░░░░░░░ think that it was ░░░░░░░░ signal that was disrupted ░░░░░░░░ would be in line ░░░░░░░░ Donald Trump who famously ░░░░░░░░ not very technologically savvy ░░░░░░░░ t use the phone ░░░░░░░░ for text message despite ░░░░░░░░ one of the most ░░░░░░░░ widely available messaging apps ░░░░░░░░ signal is not faultless ░░░░░░░░ it can be breached ░░░░░░░░ hackers and spies NBC ░░░░░░░░ has learned that prior ░░░░░░░░ yesterday s Atlantic article ░░░░░░░░ attack plans shared by ░░░░░░░░ Trump officials on the ░░░░░░░░ the Pentagon sent out ░░░░░░░░ department wide email flagging ░░░░░░░░ known vulnerability of signal ░░░░░░░░ it a major target ░░░░░░░░ Russian hackers Joining us ░░░░░░░░ is security expert Chris ░░░░░░░░ founder and CEO of ░░░░░░░░ cloak Chris thanks for ░░░░░░░░ here Signal s an ░░░░░░░░ app It s like ░░░░░░░░ but probably stronger It ░░░░░░░░ it s scrambling the ░░░░░░░░ from end to end ░░░░░░░░ government did tell Americans ░░░░░░░░ use this when China ░░░░░░░░ able to get into ░░░░░░░░ phone systems So why ░░░░░░░░ it not secure enough ░░░░░░░░ our government officials to ░░░░░░░░ having sensitive top secret ░░░░░░░░ conversations Well there are ░░░░░░░░ Few issues here Katie ░░░░░░░░ of all is going ░░░░░░░░ be in terms of ░░░░░░░░ normal text messages A ░░░░░░░░ message that you send ░░░░░░░░ yourself and your parents ░░░░░░░░ brothers your friends That ░░░░░░░░ pretty much akin to ░░░░░░░░ a postcard writing the ░░░░░░░░ on a postcard that ░░░░░░░░ can see in the ░░░░░░░░ is not going to ░░░░░░░░ secure If you have ░░░░░░░░ transmit that information to ░░░░░░░░ family member You know ░░░░░░░░ Security number other information ░░░░░░░░ and you want to ░░░░░░░░ encrypted communication Signal is ░░░░░░░░ to be an application ░░░░░░░░ a choice but it ░░░░░░░░ a consumer based application ░░░░░░░░ real issue here is ░░░░░░░░ for sensitive or classified ░░░░░░░░ that is being used ░░░░░░░░ and transmitted by the ░░░░░░░░ that number one the ░░░░░░░░ must be protected And ░░░░░░░░ two the application of ░░░░░░░░ transmission of the data ░░░░░░░░ be protected Just simply ░░░░░░░░ an encrypted app that ░░░░░░░░ only consumer grade On ░░░░░░░░ personal device is actually ░░░░░░░░ to open up the ░░░░░░░░ States and others right ░░░░░░░░ foreign spying hacking and ░░░░░░░░ risks It is not ░░░░░░░░ to go ahead and ░░░░░░░░ classified or even sensitive ░░░░░░░░ How would they go ░░░░░░░░ doing that If you ░░░░░░░░ a foreign adversary or ░░░░░░░░ bad actor and maybe ░░░░░░░░ re not even attached ░░░░░░░░ a government and you ░░░░░░░░ to get into Marco ░░░░░░░░ s phone or you ░░░░░░░░ to get into Pete ░░░░░░░░ personal phone to see ░░░░░░░░ s on some of ░░░░░░░░ apps How do they ░░░░░░░░ that I mean the ░░░░░░░░ one thing that people ░░░░░░░░ going to do is ░░░░░░░░ ahead and do open ░░░░░░░░ intelligence So they re ░░░░░░░░ to find the numbers ░░░░░░░░ are associated with the ░░░░░░░░ Much of this information ░░░░░░░░ on data broker websites ░░░░░░░░ is on the dark ░░░░░░░░ which of course cyber ░░░░░░░░ are on as well ░░░░░░░░ nation states Once you ░░░░░░░░ that information you can ░░░░░░░░ ahead and try to ░░░░░░░░ a smishing a fake ░░░░░░░░ message or a phishing ░░░░░░░░ to their known email ░░░░░░░░ And if they open ░░░░░░░░ that email on their ░░░░░░░░ if they open up ░░░░░░░░ email through the text ░░░░░░░░ on their phone they ░░░░░░░░ launch malware on the ░░░░░░░░ That then gives access ░░░░░░░░ the entire device itself ░░░░░░░░ you re talking about ░░░░░░░░ sophisticated nation state then ░░░░░░░░ you ve heard of ░░░░░░░░ many times and reported ░░░░░░░░ is pegasus right Nation ░░░░░░░░ spyware that actually does ░░░░░░░░ require the user to ░░░░░░░░ anything but can be ░░░░░░░░ to your phone and ░░░░░░░░ a nation state total ░░░░░░░░ of that device which ░░░░░░░░ include apps that are ░░░░░░░░ the device and the ░░░░░░░░ messages that are on ░░░░░░░░ In this case signal ░░░░░░░░ the unencrypted messages that ░░░░░░░░ resident on the phone ░░░░░░░░ there any way for ░░░░░░░░ bad actor to place ░░░░░░░░ s phone number into ░░░░░░░░ group chat They keep ░░░░░░░░ about how they have ░░░░░░░░ best guys working on ░░░░░░░░ to figure out how ░░░░░░░░ Goldberg got onto this ░░░░░░░░ group text message chain ░░░░░░░░ somebody place him on ░░░░░░░░ seems that that is ░░░░░░░░ to be less likely ░░░░░░░░ ve done this I ░░░░░░░░ done this Everyone has ░░░░░░░░ this We ve sent ░░░░░░░░ wrong text message to ░░░░░░░░ We ve sent added ░░░░░░░░ to an email chain ░░░░░░░░ mistake because their name ░░░░░░░░ with the same name ░░░░░░░░ same initials We ve ░░░░░░░░ done this before So ░░░░░░░░ is why you separate ░░░░░░░░ devices right You do ░░░░░░░░ have your work device ░░░░░░░░ is associated with the ░░░░░░░░ be combined with your ░░░░░░░░ device associated with you ░░░░░░░░ so you don t ░░░░░░░░ cross contamination on signal ░░░░░░░░ can actually have a ░░░░░░░░ so it does not ░░░░░░░░ from your contacts And ░░░░░░░░ you have to individually ░░░░░░░░ uniquely add an individual ░░░░░░░░ that text message to ░░░░░░░░ chat which gives you ░░░░░░░░ upper level of security ░░░░░░░░ probably was not done ░░░░░░░░ this case and this ░░░░░░░░ probably more of a ░░░░░░░░ fingering of that contact ░░░░░░░░ added In the fat ░░░░░░░░ I m thinking of ░░░░░░░░ Simpson mashing his palm ░░░░░░░░ the phone and in ░░░░░░░░ simpsons One other question ░░░░░░░░ other question for you ░░░░░░░░ sensitivity and the ability ░░░░░░░░ foreign governments to get ░░░░░░░░ these phones Steve Witkoff ░░░░░░░░ in Russia when he ░░░░░░░░ on this text chain ░░░░░░░░ Gabbard was overseas as ░░░░░░░░ She s not saying ░░░░░░░░ where she was She ░░░░░░░░ she can t remember ░░░░░░░░ the Russians wanted to ░░░░░░░░ out what Steve Witkoff ░░░░░░░░ on his phone Could ░░░░░░░░ The answer is yes ░░░░░░░░ when your phone connects ░░░░░░░░ the different communication towers ░░░░░░░░ are controlled by foreign ░░░░░░░░ foreign adversaries intelligence agencies ░░░░░░░░ can listen to watch ░░░░░░░░ what is actually going ░░░░░░░░ in terms of voice ░░░░░░░░ and the same in ░░░░░░░░ of text communications Now ░░░░░░░░ regard to signal that ░░░░░░░░ encrypted end to end ░░░░░░░░ you could launch a ░░░░░░░░ network attack against a ░░░░░░░░ device and try to ░░░░░░░░ over that device which ░░░░░░░░ render the actual encryption ░░░░░░░░ Now we absolutely know ░░░░░░░░ salt typhoon which was ░░░░░░░░ by China where it ░░░░░░░░ eight major telecommunication companies ░░░░░░░░ four months ago that ░░░░░░░░ nation states especially China ░░░░░░░░ targeting telecommunications and specific ░░░░░░░░ specific numbers and specific ░░░░░░░░ messages because that is ░░░░░░░░ part of their plan ░░░░░░░░ fact of the matter ░░░░░░░░ if you are a ░░░░░░░░ profile person a high ░░░░░░░░ government individual, that you