Anne Applebaum Compares Trump to Hitler and Stalin: ‘It’s Not as Hard as You Think to Change the Rules’

SCARBOROUGH Anne I think ░░░░░░░░ reading your works reading ░░░░░░░░ books reading your warnings ░░░░░░░░ the twilight of democracy ░░░░░░░░ people talked about catastrophizing ░░░░░░░░ past week As I ░░░░░░░░ said on this show ░░░░░░░░ Monday The Wall Street ░░░░░░░░ mocked the quote fascist ░░░░░░░░ mocked The Atlantic mocked ░░░░░░░░ people who had been ░░░░░░░░ these concerns And yet ░░░░░░░░ now have the former ░░░░░░░░ s longest serving chief ░░░░░░░░ staff saying he s ░░░░░░░░ fascist You have the ░░░░░░░░ president s chairman of ░░░░░░░░ Joint Chiefs saying that ░░░░░░░░ Trump was fascist to ░░░░░░░░ core You have Donald ░░░░░░░░ saying over the past ░░░░░░░░ he s going to ░░░░░░░░ his political opponents that ░░░░░░░░ are enemies of the ░░░░░░░░ Nancy Pelosi Adam Schiff ░░░░░░░░ said he wants to ░░░░░░░░ down CBS because he ░░░░░░░░ t like how they ░░░░░░░░ an interview He s ░░░░░░░░ threatened to Comcast He ░░░░░░░░ threatened to ABC He ░░░░░░░░ threatened to everybody that ░░░░░░░░ in his way And ░░░░░░░░ so many people I ░░░░░░░░ to are just numb ░░░░░░░░ re not listening BRZEZINSKI ░░░░░░░░ t comprehend SCARBOROUGH I ░░░░░░░░ to some of the ░░░░░░░░ highly educated people and ░░░░░░░░ say Are you concerned ░░░░░░░░ Donald Trump talking about ░░░░░░░░ the military against his ░░░░░░░░ opponents Oh I didn ░░░░░░░░ hear that And then ░░░░░░░░ play the quote for ░░░░░░░░ or you show them ░░░░░░░░ quote they go Oh ░░░░░░░░ doesn t mean that ░░░░░░░░ m sorry but is ░░░░░░░░ how it happens here ░░░░░░░░ this how it happens ░░░░░░░░ APPLEBAUM So first let ░░░░░░░░ say about The Wall ░░░░░░░░ Journal article It was ░░░░░░░░ dismissive of an article ░░░░░░░░ I wrote in The ░░░░░░░░ SCARBOROUGH Right BRZEZINSKI Mm ░░░░░░░░ APPLEBAUM And that article ░░░░░░░░ really just a list ░░░░░░░░ mean I quoted some ░░░░░░░░ that Trump said and ░░░░░░░░ compared them to things ░░░░░░░░ had been said by ░░░░░░░░ dictators mostly in the ░░░░░░░░ and 40s not just ░░░░░░░░ actually but Stalin the ░░░░░░░░ German Stasi Mao all ░░░░░░░░ them talked about their ░░░░░░░░ as vermin They used ░░░░░░░░ language of parasites BRZEZINSKI ░░░░░░░░ APPLEBAUM We need to ░░░░░░░░ these people from public ░░░░░░░░ This language about poisoned ░░░░░░░░ They re poisoning the ░░░░░░░░ of the nation I ░░░░░░░░ that s directly from ░░░░░░░░ And I went back ░░░░░░░░ looked up the quotes ░░░░░░░░ found them and so ░░░░░░░░ And The Wall Street ░░░░░░░░ response was actually one ░░░░░░░░ ve heard from others ░░░░░░░░ was first of all ░░░░░░░░ can t possibly mean ░░░░░░░░ That can t possibly ░░░░░░░░ true But also look ░░░░░░░░ terrible Kamala is Look ░░░░░░░░ bad the Democrats are ░░░░░░░░ say and it s ░░░░░░░░ there s actually a ░░░░░░░░ expression which is and ░░░░░░░░ word is symmetrism Immediately ░░░░░░░░ need to find something ░░░░░░░░ s just as bad ░░░░░░░░ I think this is ░░░░░░░░ a way of people ░░░░░░░░ I m going to ░░░░░░░░ for this guy for ░░░░░░░░ reasons because I think ░░░░░░░░ s going to lower ░░░░░░░░ or because he s ░░░░░░░░ my political camp and ░░░░░░░░ need a reason to ░░░░░░░░ it And the reason ░░░░░░░░ m going to give ░░░░░░░░ is that as I ░░░░░░░░ Harris is just as ░░░░░░░░ or it s a ░░░░░░░░ They can t take ░░░░░░░░ seriously because if they ░░░░░░░░ it says something very ░░░░░░░░ about them And I ░░░░░░░░ that s the stage ░░░░░░░░ we re at now ░░░░░░░░ Well Anne we brought ░░░░░░░░ up when I was ░░░░░░░░ The Wall Street Journal ░░░░░░░░ and I said Oh ░░░░░░░░ must be some left ░░░░░░░░ writer for The Atlantic ░░░░░░░░ came over from The ░░░░░░░░ and was in the ░░░░░░░░ Marxist club when she ░░░░░░░░ growing up And I ░░░░░░░░ No wait a second ░░░░░░░░ s actually Anne Applebaum ░░░░░░░░ spent her entire life ░░░░░░░░ researching and detailing the ░░░░░░░░ of Stalin the crimes ░░░░░░░░ the Soviet Union pushing ░░░░░░░░ against the Soviet Union ░░░░░░░░ they were still in ░░░░░░░░ pushing back against autocrats ░░░░░░░░ would undermine Western democracy ░░░░░░░░ culture Western freedom Anne ░░░░░░░░ s what s so ░░░░░░░░ to me It s ░░░░░░░░ like they re attacking ░░░░░░░░ longtime political foe they ░░░░░░░░ attacking somebody who s ░░░░░░░░ dedicated her life to ░░░░░░░░ very things that they ░░░░░░░░ stood for APPLEBAUM Well ░░░░░░░░ s very kind of ░░░░░░░░ to say I did ░░░░░░░░ to write for The ░░░░░░░░ Street Journal editorial page ░░░░░░░░ you know in living ░░░░░░░░ SCARBOROUGH So attacking one ░░░░░░░░ their own exactly But ░░░░░░░░ how does this I ░░░░░░░░ you know I read ░░░░░░░░ I ve read it ░░░░░░░░ morning I mean it ░░░░░░░░ the first place I ░░░░░░░░ and I read it ░░░░░░░░ morning And to see ░░░░░░░░ happening this whataboutism the ░░░░░░░░ week you have somebody ░░░░░░░░ about arresting their political ░░░░░░░░ It s just so ░░░░░░░░ that this is where ░░░░░░░░ ve we ve we ░░░░░░░░ come APPLEBAUM Yeah You ░░░░░░░░ I also think part ░░░░░░░░ the problem is it ░░░░░░░░ true that people when ░░░░░░░░ say Trump will be ░░░░░░░░ which is by the ░░░░░░░░ not what I said ░░░░░░░░ just said he s ░░░░░░░░ some of Hitler s ░░░░░░░░ and Stalin s language ░░░░░░░░ imagine Nazis or stormtroopers ░░░░░░░░ something that just seems ░░░░░░░░ incredible and far away ░░░░░░░░ American reality And that ░░░░░░░░ true But that s ░░░░░░░░ because they don t ░░░░░░░░ the imagination or maybe ░░░░░░░░ knowledge to know how ░░░░░░░░ is that democracies break ░░░░░░░░ nowadays Nowadays most democracies ░░░░░░░░ not because of violence ░░░░░░░░ coup d etat but ░░░░░░░░ a legitimate elected leader ░░░░░░░░ to power and then ░░░░░░░░ to dismantle institutions He ░░░░░░░░ a loyalist in the ░░░░░░░░ the jobs instead of ░░░░░░░░ He politicizes institutions that ░░░░░░░░ supposed to belong to ░░░░░░░░ whole nation like the ░░░░░░░░ or the Department of ░░░░░░░░ and makes them serve ░░░░░░░░ and his political program ░░░░░░░░ you know we ve ░░░░░░░░ this happen I mean ░░░░░░░░ s what happened in ░░░░░░░░ It s what happened ░░░░░░░░ Turkey I saw it ░░░░░░░░ in Poland where I ░░░░░░░░ part of the time ░░░░░░░░ you know and the ░░░░░░░░ ruling party at that ░░░░░░░░ tried to do this ░░░░░░░░ went through the steps ░░░░░░░░ didn t succeed in ░░░░░░░░ it fully and so ░░░░░░░░ eventually lost an election ░░░░░░░░ you know the it ░░░░░░░░ not as hard as ░░░░░░░░ think to you know ░░░░░░░░ change the rules to ░░░░░░░░ in new kinds of ░░░░░░░░ to use the law ░░░░░░░░ media or against politicians ░░░░░░░░ you don t like ░░░░░░░░ use the IRS against ░░░░░░░░ you don t like ░░░░░░░░ there are precedents for ░░░░░░░░ in American history too ░░░░░░░░ it s not as ░░░░░░░░ it s absolutely never ░░░░░░░░ before So I find ░░░░░░░░ of that eminently believable ░░░░░░░░ as I said for ░░░░░░░░ who are going to ░░░░░░░░ for him because of ░░░░░░░░ reason you know they ░░░░░░░░ to dismiss it laugh ░░░░░░░░ it mock it you ░░░░░░░░ tweet it with LOL ░░░░░░░░ know LOL at the ░░░░░░░░ because they you know ░░░░░░░░ don t want to ░░░░░░░░ to themselves what it ░░░░░░░░ they’re supporting.”