Jonathan Lis Defends a School’s Decision to Allow One of Its Pupils to Identify as a Wolf and Thinks It’s ‘Transphobic’ to Even Discuss It

UNKNOWN FEMALE I think ░░░░░░░░ s a safeguarding issue ░░░░░░░░ not only a safeguarding ░░░░░░░░ for the child that ░░░░░░░░ himself or herself as ░░░░░░░░ wolf but also for ░░░░░░░░ other kids in the ░░░░░░░░ What s that message ░░░░░░░░ out HOST 1 Right ░░░░░░░░ HOST 2 How does ░░░░░░░░ teacher address this child ░░░░░░░░ I don t really ░░░░░░░░ why we re talking ░░░░░░░░ this on national television ░░░░░░░░ is something that s ░░░░░░░░ UNKNOWN FEMALE Because it ░░░░░░░░ a real thing It ░░░░░░░░ so common LIS You ░░░░░░░░ perfectly well why we ░░░░░░░░ talking about this Because ░░░░░░░░ is an attempt by ░░░░░░░░ who viciously hate trans ░░░░░░░░ UNKNOWN FEMALE What LIS ░░░░░░░░ put a story about ░░░░░░░░ makes it look ridiculous ░░░░░░░░ the idea of identifying ░░░░░░░░ something that you re ░░░░░░░░ makes it look so ░░░░░░░░ and preposterous and obscene ░░░░░░░░ obviously no one could ░░░░░░░░ believe that it could ░░░░░░░░ place HOST 2 Identifying ░░░░░░░░ an animal with four ░░░░░░░░ and a tail LIS ░░░░░░░░ schools should obviously not ░░░░░░░░ such stupidity HOST 1 ░░░░░░░░ s nothing to do ░░░░░░░░ gender LIS It s ░░░░░░░░ equivalent of what happened ░░░░░░░░ years ago It s ░░░░░░░░ equivalent of what happened ░░░░░░░░ years ago when I ░░░░░░░░ told well if two ░░░░░░░░ can marry them why ░░░░░░░░ two dogs As one ░░░░░░░░ once said to me ░░░░░░░░ Brussels This is the ░░░░░░░░ of level of discourse ░░░░░░░░ is something that s ░░░░░░░░ in a school UNKNOWN ░░░░░░░░ No it s not ░░░░░░░░ 1 For a start ░░░░░░░░ is not one person ░░░░░░░░ that hates trans people ░░░░░░░░ I want to pull ░░░░░░░░ up on that LIS ░░░░░░░░ m not saying anyone ░░░░░░░░ trans people HOST 1 ░░░░░░░░ s not one person ░░░░░░░░ this table who hates ░░░░░░░░ people LIS I m ░░░░░░░░ the agenda behind this ░░░░░░░░ of story is transphobic ░░░░░░░░ 1 No the agenda ░░░░░░░░ go on UNKNOWN FEMALE ░░░░░░░░ ll tell you something ░░░░░░░░ If there was a ░░░░░░░░ on a trans issue ░░░░░░░░ one of the stations ░░░░░░░░ in someone who identified ░░░░░░░░ a furry the trans ░░░░░░░░ would be up in ░░░░░░░░ LIS Yeah UNKNOWN FEMALE ░░░░░░░░ is not about transgender ░░░░░░░░ But the reason we ░░░░░░░░ talking about it UNKNOWN ░░░░░░░░ No it s not ░░░░░░░░ s not The reason ░░░░░░░░ re talking about it ░░░░░░░░ because children are being ░░░░░░░░ Children have fallen down ░░░░░░░░ horrible rabbit hole They ░░░░░░░░ want to identify as ░░░░░░░░ of those when they ░░░░░░░░ down there as well ░░░░░░░░ 1 He s a ░░░░░░░░ he loves rabbit holes ░░░░░░░░ FEMALE It s about ░░░░░░░░ children It s about ░░░░░░░░ the status quo back ░░░░░░░░ and running and giving ░░░░░░░░ parameters within the common ░░░░░░░░ LIS The thing is ░░░░░░░░ we don t know ░░░░░░░░ precise circumstance of what ░░░░░░░░ happening in the school ░░░░░░░░ 1 I don t ░░░░░░░░ to know LIS That ░░░░░░░░ the problem We don ░░░░░░░░ know if this child ░░░░░░░░ other special needs or ░░░░░░░░ needs or whatever it ░░░░░░░░ be HOST 1 Irrelevant ░░░░░░░░ FEMALE And we don ░░░░░░░░ have to Because Professor ░░░░░░░░ McKay is head of ░░░░░░░░ I m so pleased ░░░░░░░░ be able to quote ░░░░░░░░ So there s nothing ░░░░░░░░ about this And he ░░░░░░░░ it LIS Well he ░░░░░░░░ in that quote that ░░░░░░░░ read was basically it ░░░░░░░░ to be a kind ░░░░░░░░ an anti trans position ░░░░░░░░ And he was saying ░░░░░░░░ children should not be ░░░░░░░░ t identify as things ░░░░░░░░ they re not We ░░░░░░░░ to sort of HOST ░░░░░░░░ You can t possibly ░░░░░░░░ what s going on ░░░░░░░░ his head subliminally Jonathan ░░░░░░░░ if you were 12 ░░░░░░░░ LIS Well that s ░░░░░░░░ that s what that ░░░░░░░░ the problem It creates ░░░░░░░░ 1 Jonathan if you ░░░░░░░░ 12 old and you ░░░░░░░░ to your mum and ░░░░░░░░ I think I m ░░░░░░░░ wolf What would they ░░░░░░░░ said LIS Well obviously ░░░░░░░░ m not the child ░░░░░░░░ question HOST 1 Yes ░░░░░░░░ this point is parenting ░░░░░░░░ s parenting What would ░░░░░░░░ said LIS Look there ░░░░░░░░ be some circumstances where ░░░░░░░░ we don t know ░░░░░░░░ s happening in school ░░░░░░░░ of us knows who ░░░░░░░░ child is or where ░░░░░░░░ school is But what ░░░░░░░░ UNKNOWN FEMALE We don ░░░░░░░░ need to know The ░░░░░░░░ in some circumstances you ░░░░░░░░ say this is clearly ░░░░░░░░ child making it up ░░░░░░░░ attention or whatever And ░░░░░░░░ are other cases where ░░░░░░░░ kind of think we ░░░░░░░░ to treat this child ░░░░░░░░ sensitivity and respect and ░░░░░░░░ around it Laughter HOST ░░░░░░░░ And warn them when ░░░░░░░░ s a full moon ░░░░░░░░ FEMALE That s what ░░░░░░░░ was just about to ░░░░░░░░ HOST 2 What a ░░░░░░░░ for the teacher and ░░░░░░░░ other children in that ░░░░░░░░ crosstalk UNKNOWN FEMALE What ░░░░░░░░ a nightmare for the ░░░░░░░░ other children in the ░░░░░░░░ as well LIS We ░░░░░░░░ no evidence about whether ░░░░░░░░ children in this class ░░░░░░░░ disturbed by it or ░░░░░░░░ or funny or anything ░░░░░░░░ HOST 1 Listen I ░░░░░░░░ give you a real ░░░░░░░░ I can I can ░░░░░░░░ you areal world example ░░░░░░░░ this I ve got ░░░░░░░░ friend and in their ░░░░░░░░ s class there are ░░░░░░░░ kids who identify as ░░░░░░░░ This is in Devon ░░░░░░░░ a sleepy little town ░░░░░░░░ Devon And that child ░░░░░░░░ upset at night My ░░░░░░░░ s child saying I ░░░░░░░░ X that he s ░░░░░░░░ actually a dog And ░░░░░░░░ he got in trouble ░░░░░░░░ saying to the child ░░░░░░░░ re not really a ░░░░░░░░ And he was upset ░░░░░░░░ night because the teacher ░░░░░░░░ told him off And ░░░░░░░░ mum was saying to ░░░░░░░░ you know what We ░░░░░░░░ to be kind We ░░░░░░░░ to accept everybody And ░░░░░░░░ took him to one ░░░░░░░░ and I went no ░░░░░░░░ don t HOST 2 ░░░░░░░░ don t UNKNOWN FEMALE ░░░░░░░░ you don t HOST ░░░░░░░░ And I had a ░░░░░░░░ with his mum and ░░░░░░░░ said you don t ░░░░░░░░ to say HOST 2 ░░░░░░░░ HOST 1 you have ░░░░░░░░ accept LIS Look the ░░░░░░░░ is that HOST 1 ░░░░░░░░ need to empower him ░░░░░░░░ call out absolute balderdash ░░░░░░░░ is what it is ░░░░░░░░ LIS The point is ░░░░░░░░ people are not growing ░░░░░░░░ We do not have ░░░░░░░░ in this country in ░░░░░░░░ mainland as far as ░░░░░░░░ believe who actually believe ░░░░░░░░ they are dogs UNKNOWN ░░░░░░░░ We don t LIS ░░░░░░░░ cats or who actually ░░░░░░░░ that they are they ░░░░░░░░ be doing it for ░░░░░░░░ or as kind of ░░░░░░░░ play or whatever HOST ░░░░░░░░ Kink thank you It ░░░░░░░░ a sex thing LIS ░░░░░░░░ HOST 1 It is ░░░░░░░░ there are crosstalk LIS ░░░░░░░░ are some people there ░░░░░░░░ some people but that ░░░░░░░░ that s not what ░░░░░░░░ re talking about right ░░░░░░░░ There are circumstances in ░░░░░░░░ people do that HOST ░░░░░░░░ I can t believe ░░░░░░░░ can t believe you ░░░░░░░░ defending this nonsense LIS ░░░░░░░░ m not defending HOST ░░░░░░░░ You are LIS I ░░░░░░░░ saying I m UNKNOWN ░░░░░░░░ I love the fact ░░░░░░░░ you are Jonathan LIS ░░░░░░░░ m saying this is ░░░░░░░░ an appropriate conversation to ░░░░░░░░ having on TV HOST ░░░░░░░░ Oh so we censor ░░░░░░░░ do we LIS because ░░░░░░░░ don t know what ░░░░░░░░ actually HOST 2 We ░░░░░░░░ it LIS because we ░░░░░░░░ getting this third hand ░░░░░░░░ we re turning it ░░░░░░░░ a bigger conversation We ░░░░░░░░ t know the identity ░░░░░░░░ the child or what ░░░░░░░░ going on UNKNOWN FEMALE ░░░░░░░░ the identity of the ░░░░░░░░ clearly is a wolf ░░░░░░░░ HOST 1 The trouble ░░░░░░░░ Jonathan that sort of ░░░░░░░░ faire blas attitude to ░░░░░░░░ is what has got ░░░░░░░░ into the situation where ░░░░░░░░ are furries in every ░░░░░░░░ across the country LIS ░░░░░░░░ s not laissez faire ░░░░░░░░ UNKNOWN FEMALE It is ░░░░░░░░ It might do more ░░░░░░░░ than good to tell ░░░░░░░░ child And again I ░░░░░░░░ t know what the ░░░░░░░░ are HOST 2 What ░░░░░░░░ tell the child you ░░░░░░░░ not a wolf Laughter ░░░░░░░░ s going to be ░░░░░░░░ job somehow You re ░░░░░░░░ a wolf crosstalk LIS ░░░░░░░░ may do it may ░░░░░░░░ more harm than good ░░░░░░░░ kind of fight back ░░░░░░░░ children when they say ░░░░░░░░ are something that you ░░░░░░░░ t think they are ░░░░░░░░ may often does more ░░░░░░░░ than good HOST 2 ░░░░░░░░ your nephew or niece ░░░░░░░░ you not say you ░░░░░░░░ not a wolf LIS ░░░░░░░░ s my nephew and ░░░░░░░░ and not this child ░░░░░░░░ they are different and ░░░░░░░░ they have different needs.”