Sen. Warren, CNBC’s Kernen Clash Once Again: ‘Did You Invite Me on Here Just to Lecture to Me?’

EVANS They take a ░░░░░░░░ look when a state ░░░░░░░░ emergency is declared and ░░░░░░░░ for the most part ░░░░░░░░ if prices go up ░░░░░░░░ or 15 compared to ░░░░░░░░ that state of emergency ░░░░░░░░ have to pay a ░░░░░░░░ So on a national ░░░░░░░░ how exactly would this ░░░░░░░░ Would you define the ░░░░░░░░ of emergency Does it ░░░░░░░░ to be declared on ░░░░░░░░ national level Are you ░░░░░░░░ talking about a 10 ░░░░░░░░ 15 increase in prices ░░░░░░░░ prior to that declaration ░░░░░░░░ then companies have to ░░░░░░░░ a fine Okay fine ░░░░░░░░ that applies in 1 ░░░░░░░░ the situations but this ░░░░░░░░ which is still vague ░░░░░░░░ making it sound like ░░░░░░░░ on the scale on ░░░░░░░░ broad based price controls ░░░░░░░░ be imposed broadly speaking ░░░░░░░░ which of the two ░░░░░░░░ is it Warren So ░░░░░░░░ is not price controls ░░░░░░░░ is about when the ░░░░░░░░ itself is not functioning ░░░░░░░░ markets don t function ░░░░░░░░ there s been a ░░░░░░░░ emergency a hurricane a ░░░░░░░░ flooding And so in ░░░░░░░░ that have these price ░░░░░░░░ laws they can come ░░░░░░░░ and say Look you ░░░░░░░░ do some price increases ░░░░░░░░ if you re going ░░░░░░░░ a certain level you ░░░░░░░░ to be able to ░░░░░░░░ it You have to ░░░░░░░░ what you re doing ░░░░░░░░ passing along costs A ░░░░░░░░ reasonable thing to do ░░░░░░░░ Senator let s go ░░░░░░░░ to Cal Maine because ░░░░░░░░ flu caused the destruction ░░░░░░░░ 40 million eggs They ░░░░░░░░ 20 market share They ░░░░░░░░ 20 but they don ░░░░░░░░ control the market It ░░░░░░░░ like OPEC or it ░░░░░░░░ like oil When oil ░░░░░░░░ go up for whatever ░░░░░░░░ or they go down ░░░░░░░░ they go down the ░░░░░░░░ is set for oil ░░░░░░░░ reason that Cal Maine ░░░░░░░░ that money was because ░░░░░░░░ s what happened to ░░░░░░░░ price The next quarter ░░░░░░░░ went down in half ░░░░░░░░ lost 50 of the ░░░░░░░░ from last they don ░░░░░░░░ set that price That ░░░░░░░░ the and neither do ░░░░░░░░ Exxon does not set ░░░░░░░░ price of oil So ░░░░░░░░ Exxon has 80 or ░░░░░░░░ a barrel yes they ░░░░░░░░ record profits When there ░░░░░░░░ a pandemic their profits ░░░░░░░░ to almost zero Now ░░░░░░░░ s just the way ░░░░░░░░ is And to think ░░░░░░░░ the government can decide ░░░░░░░░ prices are too high ░░░░░░░░ too low the grocery ░░░░░░░░ have a 2 profit ░░░░░░░░ How about Apple with ░░░░░░░░ or 40 How do ░░░░░░░░ decide This is not ░░░░░░░░ government s place to ░░░░░░░░ these things It s ░░░░░░░░ fool s errand And ░░░░░░░░ you re using it ░░░░░░░░ divert the real cause ░░░░░░░░ inflation over the last ░░░░░░░░ years which was because ░░░░░░░░ had the demand after ░░░░░░░░ pandemic which obviously you ░░░░░░░░ there was a lot ░░░░░░░░ we reopened and all ░░░░░░░░ a sudden there s ░░░░░░░░ chain issues and the ░░░░░░░░ is juiced by all ░░░░░░░░ stimulus from the IRA ░░░░░░░░ all the other spending ░░░░░░░░ we did Warren There ░░░░░░░░ been many causes for ░░░░░░░░ We all understand That ░░░░░░░░ why I started my ░░░░░░░░ in talking about this ░░░░░░░░ one of the causes ░░░░░░░░ prices going up is ░░░░░░░░ there are companies that ░░░░░░░░ market dominance that have ░░░░░░░░ Oh this is a ░░░░░░░░ when everyone s talking ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN Okay give me ░░░░░░░░ name another one Give ░░░░░░░░ an instance If you ░░░░░░░░ me an instance Warren ░░░░░░░░ I just finish my ░░░░░░░░ here KERNEN Okay go ░░░░░░░░ Warren That they have ░░░░░░░░ on earnings calls and ░░░░░░░░ over and over Inflation ░░░░░░░░ been very very good ░░░░░░░░ listen to the earnings ░░░░░░░░ from the CEO of ░░░░░░░░ who says This is ░░░░░░░░ opportunity not to pass ░░░░░░░░ costs This is an ░░░░░░░░ for us to raise ░░░░░░░░ beyond passing along costs ░░░░░░░░ increase our profit margins ░░░░░░░░ what the academic studies ░░░░░░░░ Did Warren I let ░░░░░░░░ finish What the academic ░░░░░░░░ show is that industry ░░░░░░░░ industry when you see ░░░░░░░░ competition which suggests more ░░░░░░░░ power what we saw ░░░░░░░░ that profit margins went ░░░░░░░░ and that s the ░░░░░░░░ we ve got It ░░░░░░░░ that states have tools ░░░░░░░░ deal with this locally ░░░░░░░░ right now we want ░░░░░░░░ make sure that the ░░░░░░░░ has the tools to ░░░░░░░░ it nationally and that ░░░░░░░░ states that don t ░░░░░░░░ price gouging laws also ░░░░░░░░ access to those same ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN We have anti ░░░░░░░░ In the same way ░░░░░░░░ the FTC for example ░░░░░░░░ tools to be able ░░░░░░░░ deal with deceptive pricing ░░░░░░░░ deceptive advertising it should ░░░░░░░░ the ability to deal ░░░░░░░░ price gouging It s ░░░░░░░░ another tool in the ░░░░░░░░ to say we support ░░░░░░░░ markets EVANS For a ░░░░░░░░ of emergency Is it ░░░░░░░░ a state of emergency ░░░░░░░░ that the whole point ░░░░░░░░ I let you finish ░░░░░░░░ argument Did you invite ░░░░░░░░ on here just to ░░░░░░░░ to me KERNEN No ░░░░░░░░ just want to ask ░░░░░░░░ okay Warren The whole ░░░░░░░░ is to get markets ░░░░░░░░ are more competitive and ░░░░░░░░ s the job of ░░░░░░░░ FTC That s something ░░░░░░░░ attorneys general work on ░░░░░░░░ just want to put ░░░░░░░░ more tool in the ░░░░░░░░ when CEOs are going ░░░░░░░░ the phone saying Boy ░░░░░░░░ is great because it ░░░░░░░░ us a chance to ░░░░░░░░ our prices KERNEN So ░░░░░░░░ s not about diverting ░░░░░░░░ attention away from the ░░░░░░░░ issues that might actually ░░░░░░░░ the middle class that ░░░░░░░░ always talk about helping ░░░░░░░░ 40 years companies didn ░░░░░░░░ know how to price ░░░░░░░░ until three and a ░░░░░░░░ years ago when President ░░░░░░░░ was elected Where was ░░░░░░░░ price gouging we had ░░░░░░░░ year highs in inflation ░░░░░░░░ just learned how to ░░░░░░░░ this three and a ░░░░░░░░ years ago Warren No ░░░░░░░░ difference is prices were ░░░░░░░░ going up And as ░░░░░░░░ said prices started going ░░░░░░░░ for a whole host ░░░░░░░░ reasons Prices went up ░░░░░░░░ of the pandemic Prices ░░░░░░░░ up because of supply ░░░░░░░░ kinks Prices went up ░░░░░░░░ of the war in ░░░░░░░░ Prices were going up ░░░░░░░░ the difference is when ░░░░░░░░ started going up sharply ░░░░░░░░ people noticed that companies ░░░░░░░░ companies also noticed and ░░░░░░░░ You know we could ░░░░░░░░ our prices just passing ░░░░░░░░ costs That s what ░░░░░░░░ do in a competitive ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN This is not ░░░░░░░░ senator This is not ░░░░░░░░ Warren I let you ░░░░░░░░ I let you finish ░░░░░░░░ some markets what we ░░░░░░░░ seen is in markets ░░░░░░░░ there s less competition ░░░░░░░░ CEOs said We can ░░░░░░░░ more than pass along ░░░░░░░░ And you don t ░░░░░░░░ to take my word ░░░░░░░░ it Do you listen ░░░░░░░░ earnings calls KERNEN I ░░░░░░░░ to earning senator the ░░░░░░░░ you use for Kraft ░░░░░░░░ I let you finish ░░░░░░░░ I let you finish ░░░░░░░░ It s totally fallacious ░░░░░░░░ s totally fallacious You ░░░░░░░░ the numbers Warren And ░░░░░░░░ just want to keep ░░░░░░░░ The earnings calls CEOs ░░░░░░░░ gotten out it s ░░░░░░░░ documented and they have ░░░░░░░░ We can raise our ░░░░░░░░ far more than passing ░░░░░░░░ costs and said to ░░░░░░░░ investors We have a ░░░░░░░░ future ahead of us ░░░░░░░░ They can t do ░░░░░░░░ because it s not ░░░░░░░░ monopoly Warren because our ░░░░░░░░ margins are going to ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN Other companies that ░░░░░░░░ the way the system ░░░░░░░░ Warren It happens in ░░░░░░░░ where there s more ░░░░░░░░ That s the whole ░░░░░░░░ It makes your point ░░░░░░░░ markets are less competitive ░░░░░░░░ Cal Maine has only ░░░░░░░░ Warren there s more ░░░░░░░░ gouging When markets are ░░░░░░░░ competitive it s not ░░░░░░░░ There is no price ░░░░░░░░ EVANS Would it be ░░░░░░░░ state of emergency the ░░░░░░░░ last thing Senator Warren ░░░░░░░░ to give people a ░░░░░░░░ are we talking about ░░░░░░░░ period of time for ░░░░░░░░ when we re is ░░░░░░░░ state of emergency How ░░░░░░░░ we define the period ░░░░░░░░ time And then by ░░░░░░░░ percentage 10 15 And ░░░░░░░░ are we talking about ░░░░░░░░ companies Is it modeled ░░░░░░░░ the state approach here ░░░░░░░░ The question you ask ░░░░░░░░ the same question that ░░░░░░░░ want to ask about ░░░░░░░░ is fraud what is ░░░░░░░░ advertising The answer is ░░░░░░░░ you look at all ░░░░░░░░ the facts and say ░░░░░░░░ we see a competitive ░░░░░░░░ where a buyer can ░░░░░░░░ what it is that ░░░░░░░░ re being offered and ░░░░░░░░ we have a seller ░░░░░░░░ s meeting that buyer ░░░░░░░░ they competing with other ░░░░░░░░ That s what we ░░░░░░░░ in antitrust law all ░░░░░░░░ long EVANS Yeah it ░░░░░░░░ just the vagueness of ░░░░░░░░ Warren There s nothing ░░░░░░░░ here It s putting ░░░░░░░░ more tool in the ░░░░░░░░ when there s a ░░░░░░░░ of concentration in an ░░░░░░░░ and that starts pushing ░░░░░░░░ up KERNE The example ░░░░░░░░ Kraft it s just ░░░░░░░░ it was done in ░░░░░░░░ straightforward way senator it ░░░░░░░░ just be your argument ░░░░░░░░ be much better When ░░░░░░░░ say Kraft raised profits ░░░░░░░░ it was because the ░░░░░░░░ before they had taken ░░░░░░░░ accounting charge which brought ░░░░░░░░ profit down to zero ░░░░░░░░ when they earn a ░░░░░░░░ profit the next quarter ░░░░░░░░ 800 million your people ░░░░░░░░ out information that it ░░░░░░░░ up 440 That s ░░░░░░░░ As Kelly puts out ░░░░░░░░ the cure for higher ░░░░░░░░ is when people come ░░░░░░░░ and undercut those prices ░░░░░░░░ supply goes back up ░░░░░░░░ has been since 1776 ░░░░░░░░ I agree with you ░░░░░░░░ yes for an answer ░░░░░░░░ there is competition prices ░░░░░░░░ reach the right level ░░░░░░░░ When is there then ░░░░░░░░ need antitrust laws and ░░░░░░░░ monopoly laws Warren Yes ░░░░░░░░ do Yes we do ░░░░░░░░ We already have them ░░░░░░░░ don t need to ░░░░░░░░ another one on here ░░░░░░░░ works on what what ░░░░░░░░ the number of cases ░░░░░░░░ re talking about 1 ░░░░░░░░ No So listen again ░░░░░░░░ the studies When there ░░░░░░░░ more concentration KERNEN Which ░░░░░░░░ I think I saw ░░░░░░░░ study from Groundworks It ░░░░░░░░ a liberal think tank ░░░░░░░░ From Groundworks That one ░░░░░░░░ If you don t ░░░░░░░░ to pay attention to ░░░░░░░░ numbers you can ignore ░░░░░░░░ you can ignore the ░░░░░░░░ The reality is KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ s not me not ░░░░░░░░ attention to the numbers ░░░░░░░░ Warren I let you ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN Okay all right ░░░░░░░░ The reality is the ░░░░░░░░ people know what s ░░░░░░░░ in pricing They understand ░░░░░░░░ they are being gouged ░░░░░░░░ prices KERNEN Who do ░░░░░░░░ blame for that senator ░░░░░░░░ And who they blame ░░░░░░░░ that are these giant ░░░░░░░░ that dominate KERNEN They ░░░░░░░░ the Biden Administration Warren ░░░░░░░░ you blame the Biden ░░░░░░░░ because you cannot bear ░░░░░░░░ notion that sometimes these ░░░░░░░░ markets are in fact ░░░░░░░░ competitive And when they ░░░░░░░░ not CEOs have found ░░░░░░░░ to juice their profits ░░░░░░░░ the expense of the ░░░░░░░░ public You may not ░░░░░░░░ that but the American ░░░░░░░░ understand what s happening ░░░░░░░░ they want to have ░░░░░░░░ in government who at ░░░░░░░░ have tools in the ░░░░░░░░ to be able to ░░░░░░░░ when it happens And ░░░░░░░░ s what this is ░░░░░░░░ about KERNEN So the ░░░░░░░░ has already come down ░░░░░░░░ any of this happening ░░░░░░░░ does that why do ░░░░░░░░ stop gouging Why did ░░░░░░░░ Maine why did the ░░░░░░░░ come down 50 immediately ░░░░░░░░ does it happen Warren ░░░░░░░░ m not at all ░░░░░░░░ that prices have come ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN Oh so you ░░░░░░░░ t Warren A lot ░░░░░░░░ companies a lot of ░░░░░░░░ in very concentrated industries ░░░░░░░░ raised their prices and ░░░░░░░░ sitting KERNEN The rate ░░░░░░░░ inflation has come down ░░░░░░░░ and are sitting on ░░░░░░░░ bigger profit margins than ░░░░░░░░ were sitting on three ░░░░░░░░ ago KERNEN The profit ░░░░░░░░ are less than they ░░░░░░░░ before the pandemic senator ░░░░░░░░ the food industry Warren ░░░░░░░░ are not in industries ░░░░░░░░ there s more concentration ░░░░░░░░ I get it You ░░░░░░░░ to pretend that markets ░░░░░░░░ always correct themselves KERNEN ░░░░░░░░ I want to I ░░░░░░░░ to try to actually ░░░░░░░░ inflation Warren I m ░░░░░░░░ who believes in competitive ░░░░░░░░ That s what I ░░░░░░░░ to see happen That ░░░░░░░░ what I m out ░░░░░░░░ fighting for But competitive ░░░░░░░░ won t happen on ░░░░░░░░ own When these companies ░░░░░░░░ bigger and bigger and ░░░░░░░░ one of the consequences ░░░░░░░░ that they start figuring ░░░░░░░░ other ways to juice ░░░░░░░░ profits They do things ░░░░░░░░ they cut quality they ░░░░░░░░ innovating and they start ░░░░░░░░ up their profit margins ░░░░░░░░ know we have antitrust ░░░░░░░░ and thank goodness for ░░░░░░░░ Khan who is out ░░░░░░░░ starting to enforce them ░░░░░░░░ to say to these ░░░░░░░░ companies they cannot just ░░░░░░░░ entire markets and do ░░░░░░░░ they want because we ░░░░░░░░ t get the benefits ░░░░░░░░ of markets This is ░░░░░░░░ one more tool in ░░░░░░░░ toolbox to deal with ░░░░░░░░ that use their dominance ░░░░░░░░ be able to boost ░░░░░░░░ profit margins That s ░░░░░░░░ KERNEN They re telling ░░░░░░░░ we re out of ░░░░░░░░ Senator it s been ░░░░░░░░ and it s been ░░░░░░░░ and it s good ░░░░░░░░ go back and forth ░░░░░░░░ ve done this before ░░░░░░░░ we ll have to ░░░░░░░░ to disagree I think ░░░░░░░░ the way the United ░░░░░░░░ came out of the ░░░░░░░░ you want to thank ░░░░░░░░ government I think the ░░░░░░░░ sector we can thank ░░░░░░░░ the 15 million jobs ░░░░░░░░ everything else So I ░░░░░░░░ we need to embrace ░░░░░░░░ There may be a ░░░░░░░░ bad actors but the ░░░░░░░░ idea that it s ░░░░░░░░ about these bad corporations ░░░░░░░░ just ill conceived But ░░░░░░░░ for your time EVANS ░░░░░░░░ she let you finish ░░░░░░░░ She did Well to ░░░░░░░░ the interview EVANS But ░░░░░░░░ had the last word ░░░░░░░░ was very good.”