Ben Shapiro to Brian Stelter: ‘CNN Has Been Pretty Bad’ on Gun Debate Coverage

RUSH TRANSCRIPT STELTER Hey ░░░░░░░░ back to RELIABLE SOURCES ░░░░░░░░ m Brian Stelter President ░░░░░░░░ and his tweets about ░░░░░░░░ Mueller the potential for ░░░░░░░░ s firing it is ░░░░░░░░ story that s dominating ░░░░░░░░ coverage including here on ░░░░░░░░ once again this weekend ░░░░░░░░ have heard a lot ░░░░░░░░ cries a lot of ░░░░░░░░ on social media and ░░░░░░░░ TV that this is ░░░░░░░░ normal None of this ░░░░░░░░ normal And yet some ░░░░░░░░ media critics say that ░░░░░░░░ of those all that ░░░░░░░░ all the people pointing ░░░░░░░░ out are actually undermining ░░░░░░░░ media s own credibility ░░░░░░░░ s talk about media ░░░░░░░░ in this unique moment ░░░░░░░░ time with Ben Shapiro ░░░░░░░░ is the editor in ░░░░░░░░ of The Daily Wire ░░░░░░░░ great to see you ░░░░░░░░ Shapiro EDITOR IN CHIEF ░░░░░░░░ DAILY WIRE Hey good ░░░░░░░░ see you too STELTER ░░░░░░░░ have argued in the ░░░░░░░░ the media shouldn t ░░░░░░░░ around pointing out how ░░░░░░░░ these circumstances are Why ░░░░░░░░ that Shapiro Well I ░░░░░░░░ it sort of depends ░░░░░░░░ stuff over this weekend ░░░░░░░░ not particularly normal so ░░░░░░░░ s hard for me ░░░░░░░░ argue the media shouldn ░░░░░░░░ be saying that the ░░░░░░░░ is acting in non ░░░░░░░░ fashion with regard to ░░░░░░░░ Russia investigation That said ░░░░░░░░ think because the media ░░░░░░░░ been saying not normal ░░░░░░░░ often for so long ░░░░░░░░ over a year for ░░░░░░░░ years at this point ░░░░░░░░ a certain point it ░░░░░░░░ the boy who cried ░░░░░░░░ Even when something is ░░░░░░░░ normal as it has ░░░░░░░░ this weekend I think ░░░░░░░░ are a lot of ░░░░░░░░ who go well that ░░░░░░░░ just the media is ░░░░░░░░ off How are we ░░░░░░░░ to trust them after ░░░░░░░░ years of saying everything ░░░░░░░░ man does isn t ░░░░░░░░ STELTER Isn t that ░░░░░░░░ because there has been ░░░░░░░░ decade long movement on ░░░░░░░░ right to discredit the ░░░░░░░░ well before President Trump ░░░░░░░░ along Shapiro Yes I ░░░░░░░░ be surprised if it ░░░░░░░░ just a decade CROSSTALK ░░░░░░░░ Decades long Yes Shapiro ░░░░░░░░ on the right for ░░░░░░░░ long as I have ░░░░░░░░ alive there has been ░░░░░░░░ lot of questions about ░░░░░░░░ objectivity And I don ░░░░░░░░ think that those questions ░░░░░░░░ ill founded I think ░░░░░░░░ is why as I ░░░░░░░░ been saying it s ░░░░░░░░ incumbent on the media ░░░░░░░░ do as much reporting ░░░░░░░░ the facts as possible ░░░░░░░░ leave a lot of ░░░░░░░░ hyperbole out of it ░░░░░░░░ know that s really ░░░░░░░░ at a time when ░░░░░░░░ hyperbole seems to not ░░░░░░░░ get ratings but also ░░░░░░░░ jog people s kind ░░░░░░░░ amygdalas But the fact ░░░░░░░░ that the more the ░░░░░░░░ underplays I think the ░░░░░░░░ they will do in ░░░░░░░░ of people trusting them ░░░░░░░░ at this time what ░░░░░░░░ happening right now is ░░░░░░░░ is breaking down into ░░░░░░░░ affinity President Trump says ░░░░░░░░ news A lot of ░░░░░░░░ people say OK well ░░░░░░░░ the president says it ░░░░░░░░ media are fake on ░░░░░░░░ lot of topics or ░░░░░░░░ least they are biased ░░░░░░░░ a lot of topics ░░░░░░░░ why wouldn t they ░░░░░░░░ biased here as well ░░░░░░░░ media sort of need ░░░░░░░░ bend over backwards to ░░░░░░░░ that they aren t ░░░░░░░░ especially in cases like ░░░░░░░░ Russia investigation Again I ░░░░░░░░ what that the president ░░░░░░░░ done this weekend is ░░░░░░░░ normal I think if ░░░░░░░░ president were to fire ░░░░░░░░ Mueller it would precipitate ░░░░░░░░ really devastating politics in ░░░░░░░░ country for sure And ░░░░░░░░ should But I think ░░░░░░░░ s important that the ░░░░░░░░ hold their fire until ░░░░░░░░ point here something really ░░░░░░░░ has happened I m ░░░░░░░░ but the firing of ░░░░░░░░ McCabe for example on ░░░░░░░░ that was recommended by ░░░░░░░░ OPR That is not ░░░░░░░░ that is wildly out ░░░░░░░░ bounds What is out ░░░░░░░░ bounds obviously is the ░░░░░░░░ talking about firing Mueller ░░░░░░░░ if he would actually ░░░░░░░░ Mueller STELTER Where do ░░░░░░░░ see the most egregious ░░░░░░░░ bias right now Shapiro ░░░░░░░░ over the last three ░░░░░░░░ obviously the coverage of ░░░░░░░░ gun debate has been ░░░░░░░░ egregious I don t ░░░░░░░░ to single out your ░░░░░░░░ but CNN has been ░░░░░░░░ bad on this from ░░░░░░░░ conservative perspective The idea ░░░░░░░░ when there is a ░░░░░░░░ shooting that the media ░░░░░░░░ the necessity to put ░░░░░░░░ TV not only survivors ░░░░░░░░ specific survivors that there ░░░░░░░░ a certain subset of ░░░░░░░░ who make it on ░░░░░░░░ a lot a lot ░░░░░░░░ there are certain other ░░░░░░░░ who don t And ░░░░░░░░ they decide out single ░░░░░░░░ certain events and not ░░░░░░░░ events in order to ░░░░░░░░ a particular case or ░░░░░░░░ allow certainly people to ░░░░░░░░ on TV and suggest ░░░░░░░░ folks like Dana Loesch ░░░░░░░░ people at the NRA ░░░░░░░░ evil don t care ░░░░░░░░ are terrorists and there ░░░░░░░░ no pushback from the ░░░░░░░░ This sort of thing ░░░░░░░░ a lot of people ░░░░░░░░ the right feel that ░░░░░░░░ media are really using ░░░░░░░░ as an opportunity to ░░░░░░░░ gun control rather than ░░░░░░░░ covering the legislative efforts ░░░░░░░░ are going on in ░░░░░░░░ D C STELTER So ░░░░░░░░ view is it should ░░░░░░░░ 50 50 Even if ░░░░░░░░ of the students are ░░░░░░░░ gun control measures you ░░░░░░░░ it to be 50 ░░░░░░░░ or Shapiro No I ░░░░░░░░ 80 20 would be ░░░░░░░░ Anything but 95 5 ░░░░░░░░ probably be a good ░░░░░░░░ and I think it ░░░░░░░░ also pretty obvious that ░░░░░░░░ everybody this is my ░░░░░░░░ about journalism everybody in ░░░░░░░░ has their own political ░░░░░░░░ We all vote obviously ░░░░░░░░ at least most of ░░░░░░░░ do And it s ░░░░░░░░ a pleasant thing when ░░░░░░░░ in the media pretend ░░░░░░░░ political views are not ░░░░░░░░ their coverage when it ░░░░░░░░ so obvious that those ░░░░░░░░ views clearly are influencing ░░░░░░░░ coverage STELTER But is ░░░░░░░░ political just to want ░░░░░░░░ gun death That s ░░░░░░░░ political Shapiro Well obviously ░░░░░░░░ s not political to ░░░░░░░░ fewer gun deaths Nobody ░░░░░░░░ more gun deaths I ░░░░░░░░ that what is political ░░░░░░░░ allowing certain people to ░░░░░░░░ on TV and without ░░░░░░░░ sort of follow up ░░░░░░░░ say things like their ░░░░░░░░ enemies don t care ░░░░░░░░ human lives Like I ░░░░░░░░ CNN got very upset ░░░░░░░░ Dana Loesch said at ░░░░░░░░ that people in the ░░░░░░░░ didn t care enough ░░░░░░░░ CNN doesn t get ░░░░░░░░ Certain anchors or reporters ░░░░░░░░ challenge something That s ░░░░░░░░ a network wide thing ░░░░░░░░ 45 02 Shapiro Well ░░░░░░░░ but reporters need to ░░░░░░░░ But again the reporters ░░░░░░░░ the representatives of the ░░░░░░░░ When I tune in ░░░░░░░░ there is a reporter ░░░░░░░░ CNN and the CNN ░░░░░░░░ is in the bottom ░░░░░░░░ of the crawl there ░░░░░░░░ nothing I can do ░░░░░░░░ an observer but say ░░░░░░░░ well CNN may have ░░░░░░░░ bias here especially if ░░░░░░░░ bias all runs in ░░░░░░░░ Direction It s not ░░░░░░░░ some of the members ░░░░░░░░ the CNN are pushing ░░░░░░░░ particular agenda and some ░░░░░░░░ pushing another agenda There ░░░░░░░░ always if there is ░░░░░░░░ bias it is universally ░░░░░░░░ one side and that ░░░░░░░░ what people on the ░░░░░░░░ are seeing STELTER You ░░░░░░░░ the agenda that is ░░░░░░░░ pushed is gun control ░░░░░░░░ interviewing students who are ░░░░░░░░ to go back to ░░░░░░░░ Is that how you ░░░░░░░░ it Shapiro NO I ░░░░░░░░ the agenda being pushed ░░░░░░░░ gun control if there ░░░░░░░░ is no pushback on ░░░░░░░░ that would be asked ░░░░░░░░ any other guest I ░░░░░░░░ the tragedy is obviously ░░░░░░░░ terrible thing but it ░░░░░░░░ t necessarily confer expertise ░░░░░░░░ that s one of ░░░░░░░░ big problems here PHONE ░░░░░░░░ STELTER You are very ░░░░░░░░ Ben Do you want ░░░░░░░░ grab that Shapiro Yes ░░░░░░░░ Goodness gracious STELTER It ░░░░░░░░ to all of us ░░░░░░░░ Sorry about that STELTER ░░░░░░░░ wanted to ask you ░░░░░░░░ Your Web site The ░░░░░░░░ Wire a lot of ░░░░░░░░ conservative media sites that ░░░░░░░░ criticism of the press ░░░░░░░░ sometimes worry you all ░░░░░░░░ trying to tear things ░░░░░░░░ as opposed to make ░░░░░░░░ better It s one ░░░░░░░░ to critique and want ░░░░░░░░ to be better but ░░░░░░░░ I feel like you ░░░░░░░░ just trying to get ░░░░░░░░ of journalism altogether Is ░░░░░░░░ unfair Shapiro Questioning the ░░░░░░░░ I don t think ░░░░░░░░ a useful thing If ░░░░░░░░ can point out to ░░░░░░░░ where the critique is ░░░░░░░░ I think that is ░░░░░░░░ thing If the suggestion ░░░░░░░░ that the critique is ░░░░░░░░ because the movie is ░░░░░░░░ that s another So ░░░░░░░░ I think that if ░░░░░░░░ don t like the ░░░░░░░░ then ignore the motive ░░░░░░░░ take the critique insofar ░░░░░░░░ it s effective Right ░░░░░░░░ all have motives But ░░░░░░░░ fact is listen I ░░░░░░░░ t want CNN to ░░░░░░░░ I don t want ░░░░░░░░ New York Times to ░░░░░░░░ I don t The ░░░░░░░░ Post to disappear I ░░░░░░░░ them to do what ░░░░░░░░ say they are supposed ░░░░░░░░ be doing I want ░░░░░░░░ to perform objective journalism ░░░░░░░░ that what they say ░░░░░░░░ re going to do ░░░░░░░░ opinion journalism if they ░░░░░░░░ to say that they ░░░░░░░░ opinion journalists That s ░░░░░░░░ My problem is when ░░░░░░░░ is why my critique ░░░░░░░░ for example The New ░░░░░░░░ Times op ed page ░░░░░░░░ far less than my ░░░░░░░░ of The New York ░░░░░░░░ objective journalism There s ░░░░░░░░ difference between op ed ░░░░░░░░ journalism It s why ░░░░░░░░ critique of MSNBC sometimes ░░░░░░░░ a lot less strident ░░░░░░░░ think than my critique ░░░░░░░░ CNN because CNN purports ░░░░░░░░ be objective MSNBC really ░░░░░░░░ not purport to be ░░░░░░░░ in the same way ░░░░░░░░ Part of me thinks ░░░░░░░░ you and your colleagues ░░░░░░░░ The Daily Wire should ░░░░░░░░ try to jobs then ░░░░░░░░ The New York Times ░░░░░░░░ you don t like ░░░░░░░░ coverage try to be ░░░░░░░░ part of the solution ░░░░░░░░ opposed to complaining about ░░░░░░░░ Shapiro I don t ░░░░░░░░ Would you hire me ░░░░░░░░ really doubt that And ░░░░░░░░ only that I m ░░░░░░░░ sure you guys would ░░░░░░░░ me I will be ░░░░░░░░ with me I make ░░░░░░░░ lot of money so ░░░░░░░░ STELTER I wanted you ░░░░░░░░ a guest for many ░░░░░░░░ I was wondering The ░░░░░░░░ Wire has been growing ░░░░░░░░ profile has been blowing ░░░░░░░░ There was talk about ░░░░░░░░ maybe taking over Glenn ░░░░░░░░ s The Blaze Can ░░░░░░░░ tell us if that ░░░░░░░░ true and where you ░░░░░░░░ your media company going ░░░░░░░░ the future Shapiro All ░░░░░░░░ can say about that ░░░░░░░░ that we re always ░░░░░░░░ for opportunities to grow ░░░░░░░░ we are very much ░░░░░░░░ of what Glenn does ░░░░░░░░ opportunity we have to ░░░░░░░░ with Glenn like a ░░░░░░░░ of other folks we ░░░░░░░░ happy to take STELTER ░░░░░░░░ right, interesting. Interesting tease.