Judge Grills CNN’s Lawyer in Defamation Hearing: Do They Know ‘What Words Mean?’

ROBERTS The thing in ░░░░░░░░ particular case that does ░░░░░░░░ a little more actionable ░░░░░░░░ the fact that you ░░░░░░░░ when they were talking ░░░░░░░░ Mr Young they had ░░░░░░░░ picture on the thing ░░░░░░░░ there was a chyron ░░░░░░░░ says he was involved ░░░░░░░░ a black market And ░░░░░░░░ know I ve looked ░░░░░░░░ a couple of dictionaries ░░░░░░░░ or four and the ░░░░░░░░ definition for black market ░░░░░░░░ all the dictionaries is ░░░░░░░░ activity And you know ░░░░░░░░ you are accusing someone ░░░░░░░░ criminal activity and they ░░░░░░░░ not involved in a ░░░░░░░░ that s usually defamation ░░░░░░░░ se Correct TOBIN Under ░░░░░░░░ law where we would ░░░░░░░░ looking at the defamatory ░░░░░░░░ perhaps it would be ░░░░░░░░ we re on a ░░░░░░░░ of actual malice express ░░░░░░░░ and outrageous conduct measured ░░░░░░░░ objective standards Under that ░░░░░░░░ your honor regardless of ░░░░░░░░ the meaning may be ░░░░░░░░ the dictionary which is ░░░░░░░░ objective definition What plaintiff ░░░░░░░░ to show is that ░░░░░░░░ CNN intended that meaning ░░░░░░░░ there is no facts ░░░░░░░░ the record to give ░░░░░░░░ to a reasonable jury ░░░░░░░░ about actual ROBERTS Tell ░░░░░░░░ how the triad works ░░░░░░░░ The triad your honor ░░░░░░░░ a group of three ░░░░░░░░ departments at CNN It ░░░░░░░░ the Standards and Practices ░░░░░░░░ it s the Legal ░░░░░░░░ and it s the ░░░░░░░░ Department they come together ░░░░░░░░ ROBERTS So these are ░░░░░░░░ and professional writers that ░░░░░░░░ know are used to ░░░░░░░░ with words and have ░░░░░░░░ and know how precise ░░░░░░░░ words mean TOBIN One ░░░░░░░░ presume your honor that ░░░░░░░░ re educated people that ░░░░░░░░ ve been in the ░░░░░░░░ for a while But ░░░░░░░░ honor there is nothing ░░░░░░░░ the record discussing the ░░░░░░░░ blackmail at all among ░░░░░░░░ of the CNN journalists ░░░░░░░░ it is plaintiff s ░░░░░░░░ ROBERTS Well black market ░░░░░░░░ the word that was ░░░░░░░░ in the chyron right ░░░░░░░░ Actually your honor the ░░░░░░░░ used in the in ░░░░░░░░ chyron and said by ░░░░░░░░ Tapper when he introduced ░░░░░░░░ story was Afghans trying ░░░░░░░░ get out of the ░░░░░░░░ face a black market ░░░░░░░░ of promises demands of ░░░░░░░░ fees and no guarantees ░░░░░░░░ safety or success And ░░░░░░░░ in context we maintain ░░░░░░░░ it is clear on ░░░░░░░░ face what CNN meant ░░░░░░░░ black market which is ░░░░░░░░ within the phrase itself ░░░░░░░░ market full of promises ░░░░░░░░ of exorbitant fees and ░░░░░░░░ guarantees of safety of ░░░░░░░░ And there is no ░░░░░░░░ there is no evidence ░░░░░░░░ the record that CNN ░░░░░░░░ example knew the promises ░░░░░░░░ being fulfilled or that ░░░░░░░░ was a demand there ░░░░░░░░ not a demand for ░░░░░░░░ fees We just discussed ░░░░░░░░ that s an opinion ░░░░░░░░ honor no guarantee of ░░░░░░░░ or success the issue ░░░░░░░░ punitive WINOKUR I hate ░░░░░░░░ keep harping on this ░░░░░░░░ None of those things ░░░░░░░░ what could be commonly ░░░░░░░░ to as black market ░░░░░░░░ see Judge Roberts s ░░░░░░░░ that black market clearly ░░░░░░░░ dictionary definition or otherwise ░░░░░░░░ illegal exchange of goods ░░░░░░░░ Your honor WINOKUR That ░░░░░░░░ nothing to do with ░░░░░░░░ other descriptions in the ░░░░░░░░ TOBIN If it was ░░░░░░░░ poor choice of words ░░░░░░░░ honor and at best ░░░░░░░░ argue that it was ░░░░░░░░ best a poor choice ░░░░░░░░ words your honor that ░░░░░░░░ have an impact on ░░░░░░░░ rest of this case ░░░░░░░░ under negligent standard actual ░░░░░░░░ I mean whatever standard ░░░░░░░░ trial judge decides to ░░░░░░░░ Here in the punitive ░░░░░░░░ context the burden was ░░░░░░░░ plaintiffs in the court ░░░░░░░░ to show that that ░░░░░░░░ the meaning that they ░░░░░░░░ It is not implied ░░░░░░░░ is not assumed by ░░░░░░░░ court It is based ░░░░░░░░ record evidence under 768 ░░░░░░░░ of the intention for ░░░░░░░░ meaning ROBERTS So what ░░░░░░░░ are we to make ░░░░░░░░ the internal emails that ░░░░░░░░ were brought into the ░░░░░░░░ where they called Mr ░░░░░░░░ a sh t bag ░░░░░░░░ said that they were ░░░░░░░░ nail the Zachary Young ░░░░░░░░ ever said he had ░░░░░░░░ punchable face said he ░░░░░░░░ an asshole and said ░░░░░░░░ was his funeral bucko ░░░░░░░░ what do we make ░░░░░░░░ those TOBIN Your honor ░░░░░░░░ ROBERTS Is that at ░░░░░░░░ some evidence of malice ░░░░░░░░ It s actually the ░░░░░░░░ your honor VEL FREEDMAN ░░░░░░░░ think there are two ░░░░░░░░ that are the general ░░░░░░░░ are the bases for ░░░░░░░░ defamation lawsuit The first ░░░░░░░░ as the court has ░░░░░░░░ as Judge Roberts as ░░░░░░░░ noted is the black ░░░░░░░░ definition And judge I ░░░░░░░░ add that the black ░░░░░░░░ has one definition in ░░░░░░░░ dictionary not just the ░░░░░░░░ but one in every ░░░░░░░░ we ve looked at ░░░░░░░░ CNN has failed to ░░░░░░░░ forward any dictionary with ░░░░░░░░ alternative definition It means ░░░░░░░░ activity full stop And ░░░░░░░░ s what the case ░░░░░░░░ that we ve to ░░░░░░░░ court as well treats ░░░░░░░░ illegal activity So that ░░░░░░░░ one basis The second ░░░░░░░░ isn t about the ░░░░░░░░ of money he was ░░░░░░░░ it s that he ░░░░░░░░ ROBERTS But do we ░░░░░░░░ to look at their ░░░░░░░░ Because opposing counsel s ░░░░░░░░ was that they were ░░░░░░░░ it in a more ░░░░░░░░ sense They weren t ░░░░░░░░ this man s committing ░░░░░░░░ crime They re saying ░░░░░░░░ man s doing something ░░░░░░░░ FREEDMAN So judge I ░░░░░░░░ it is absurd in ░░░░░░░░ face to say that ░░░░░░░░ are using the word ░░░░░░░░ market that has but ░░░░░░░░ definition in the English ░░░░░░░░ in a way that ░░░░░░░░ wasn t intended to ░░░░░░░░ used So what CNN ░░░░░░░░ claiming is they took ░░░░░░░░ word from the English ░░░░░░░░ that has one definition ░░░░░░░░ they meant when they ░░░░░░░░ black market they actually ░░░░░░░░ grey market but they ░░░░░░░░ black market that has ░░░░░░░░ definition CNN can t ░░░░░░░░ up there and say ░░░░░░░░ Mr Young is a ░░░░░░░░ killer but actually mean ░░░░░░░░ he was a good ░░░░░░░░ but they only knew ░░░░░░░░ in their head And ░░░░░░░░ know what judge if ░░░░░░░░ did fine Let them ░░░░░░░░ that to the jury ░░░░░░░░ this stage as the ░░░░░░░░ was focusing on appropriately ░░░░░░░░ we need to show ░░░░░░░░ reasonable showing that a ░░░░░░░░ basis for punitive damages ░░░░░░░░ Will a jury buy ░░░░░░░░ argument that they meant ░░░░░░░░ else when they said ░░░░░░░░ market I don t ░░░░░░░░ so but this court ░░░░░░░░ only serving in a ░░░░░░░░ function at this point ░░░░░░░░ ensure that proper claims ░░░░░░░░ punitive damages reach the ░░░░░░░░ And to say that ░░░░░░░░ somebody uses a word ░░░░░░░░ means what it means ░░░░░░░░ not a sufficient showing ░░░░░░░░ I don t know ░░░░░░░░ should reach the jury ░░░░░░░░ punitive damages claims.”