Jessica Roth: On ‘Willfulness’ There Wasn’t Sufficient Evidence that Biden Knew He Was Acting Contrary to Law

COOPER for perspective now ░░░░░░░░ our panel plus two ░░░░░░░░ federal prosecutors Jessica Roth ░░░░░░░░ Elie Honig Jessica I ░░░░░░░░ now you ve heard ░░░░░░░░ special counsel s testimony ░░░░░░░░ ve seen the transcripts ░░░░░░░░ you agree with his ░░░░░░░░ ROTH Oh yes And ░░░░░░░░ thought that the most ░░░░░░░░ takeaways from the testimony ░░░░░░░░ consistent with this report ░░░░░░░░ that he found that ░░░░░░░░ weren t warranted in ░░░░░░░░ case based on the ░░░░░░░░ that he uncovered And ░░░░░░░░ also made clear that ░░░░░░░░ Biden was fully cooperative ░░░░░░░░ his investigation and didn ░░░░░░░░ obstruct it in any ░░░░░░░░ which really stands in ░░░░░░░░ to how former President ░░░░░░░░ handled it and finally ░░░░░░░░ clear today that there ░░░░░░░░ absolutely no interference in ░░░░░░░░ Hur s ability to ░░░░░░░░ his investigation from the ░░░░░░░░ general or the Department ░░░░░░░░ Justice COOPER Was it ░░░░░░░░ saying that they weren ░░░░░░░░ the charges weren t ░░░░░░░░ or that he couldn ░░░░░░░░ prove charges ROTH Well ░░░░░░░░ he can t prove ░░░░░░░░ charges then the charges ░░░░░░░░ t warranted I mean ░░░░░░░░ re essentially one and ░░░░░░░░ same And there were ░░░░░░░░ number of elements of ░░░░░░░░ offense that he didn ░░░░░░░░ have sufficient evidence for ░░░░░░░░ And today anyone watching ░░░░░░░░ a real lesson in ░░░░░░░░ law in one offense ░░░░░░░░ particular which is the ░░░░░░░░ retention of national defense ░░░░░░░░ which requires showing that ░░░░░░░░ person possessed what counts ░░░░░░░░ national defense information and ░░░░░░░░ they possessed it knowingly ░░░░░░░░ they failed to return ░░░░░░░░ and that they did ░░░░░░░░ willfully which in this ░░░░░░░░ means that they did ░░░░░░░░ knowing they were doing ░░░░░░░░ contrary to law And ░░░░░░░░ respect to each element ░░░░░░░░ were problems as to ░░░░░░░░ different tranches of documents ░░░░░░░░ Mr Hur looked at ░░░░░░░░ particularly on the willfulness ░░░░░░░░ and he kept coming ░░░░░░░░ to this he said ░░░░░░░░ just wasn t sufficient ░░░░░░░░ for to convict beyond ░░░░░░░░ reasonable doubt for a ░░░░░░░░ to find beyond a ░░░░░░░░ doubt that Mr President ░░░░░░░░ knew he was acting ░░░░░░░░ to law And there ░░░░░░░░ lots of things in ░░░░░░░░ report that supported that ░░░░░░░░ that there was insufficient ░░░░░░░░ on the willfulness COOPER ░░░░░░░░ I want to play ░░░░░░░░ contentious exchange or part ░░░░░░░░ it between congressman Schiff ░░░░░░░░ Mr Hur Let s ░░░░░░░░ this Clip starts Schiff ░░░░░░░░ could have written your ░░░░░░░░ with his with comments ░░░░░░░░ his specific recollection as ░░░░░░░░ documents or a set ░░░░░░░░ documents but you chose ░░░░░░░░ general pejorative reference to ░░░░░░░░ president You understood when ░░░░░░░░ made that decision didn ░░░░░░░░ you Mr Hur that ░░░░░░░░ would ignite a political ░░░░░░░░ with that language didn ░░░░░░░░ you HUR Congressman politics ░░░░░░░░ no part whatsoever in ░░░░░░░░ investigative steps Schiff But ░░░░░░░░ understood nevertheless Mr Hur ░░░░░░░░ cannot tell me you ░░░░░░░░ so naive as to ░░░░░░░░ your words would not ░░░░░░░░ created a political firestorm ░░░░░░░░ ends COOPER Elie I ░░░░░░░░ wondering what do you ░░░░░░░░ about that Because what ░░░░░░░░ is saying is he ░░░░░░░░ have been very specific ░░░░░░░░ saying he did not ░░░░░░░░ the year he remembered ░░░░░░░░ day and the month ░░░░░░░░ not the year Instead ░░░░░░░░ made a broader statement ░░░░░░░░ s according to Schiff ░░░░░░░░ I agree with Adam ░░░░░░░░ that the language used ░░░░░░░░ Robert Hur was over ░░░░░░░░ top and arguably unnecessary ░░░░░░░░ disagree with Adam Schiff ░░░░░░░░ indignation over this Because ░░░░░░░░ you really boil it ░░░░░░░░ Joe Biden in a ░░░░░░░░ got lucky here By ░░░░░░░░ the focus on Robert ░░░░░░░░ s assessment of Joe ░░░░░░░░ s mental state his ░░░░░░░░ really at bottom it ░░░░░░░░ what one person believes ░░░░░░░░ Joe Biden But what ░░░░░░░░ been missed in all ░░░░░░░░ what Adam Schiff was ░░░░░░░░ indignant about was that ░░░░░░░░ Biden misled the American ░░░░░░░░ I mean let s ░░░░░░░░ lose the headline here ░░░░░░░░ Biden some of those ░░░░░░░░ he genuinely there s ░░░░░░░░ proof he knew he ░░░░░░░░ But he absolutely knew ░░░░░░░░ had at least some ░░░░░░░░ those documents the documents ░░░░░░░░ to Afghanistan he s ░░░░░░░░ tape in 2017 He ░░░░░░░░ he had them he ░░░░░░░░ not turn them over ░░░░░░░░ disclosed at least their ░░░░░░░░ if not the actual ░░░░░░░░ documents to his biographer ░░░░░░░░ he had a specific ░░░░░░░░ He wanted to be ░░░░░░░░ hero in the historical ░░░░░░░░ of the Afghanistan story ░░░░░░░░ Obama to be the ░░░░░░░░ in that story and ░░░░░░░░ has been missed because ░░░░░░░░ s so much focus ░░░░░░░░ the assessment of his ░░░░░░░░ and his age That ░░░░░░░░ really damaging I agree ░░░░░░░░ Jessica when it comes ░░░░░░░░ whether this case should ░░░░░░░░ been charged or not ░░░░░░░░ think it s important ░░░░░░░░ understand when you re ░░░░░░░░ prosecutor there s some ░░░░░░░░ that have to be ░░░░░░░░ I think Donald Trump ░░░░░░░░ Mar a Lago case ░░░░░░░░ to be charged Then ░░░░░░░░ s some cases that ░░░░░░░░ can t charge There ░░░░░░░░ a missing element you ░░░░░░░░ don t have the ░░░░░░░░ But then there s ░░░░░░░░ broad discretionary zone And ░░░░░░░░ think this one fell ░░░░░░░░ that discretionary zone and ░░░░░░░░ did Robert Hur because ░░░░░░░░ said I do believe ░░░░░░░░ reasonable juror could have ░░░░░░░░ That doesn t mean ░░░░░░░░ have to charge but ░░░░░░░░ means he could ve ░░░░░░░░ a different prosecutor could ░░░░░░░░ come to a different ░░░░░░░░ So Biden got lucky ░░░░░░░░ that sense here.”