Ben Shapiro to Peter Beinart: ‘Hamas Celebrates Every Moment You’re on Television’

TAPPER Welcome back Amid ░░░░░░░░ the charges and counter ░░░░░░░░ over the body count ░░░░░░░░ Gaza one thing seems ░░░░░░░░ More Palestinian children have ░░░░░░░░ killed than Israeli soldiers ░░░░░░░░ United Nations Office for ░░░░░░░░ Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs ░░░░░░░░ that as of yesterday ░░░░░░░░ children had been killed ░░░░░░░░ s more than the ░░░░░░░░ Israeli soldiers that have ░░░░░░░░ in military operations over ░░░░░░░░ past eight years Joining ░░░░░░░░ now Peter Beinart CNN ░░░░░░░░ commentator and a columnist ░░░░░░░░ the Israeli newspaper Haaretz ░░░░░░░░ Ben Shapiro editor in ░░░░░░░░ of TruthRevolt org Gentlemen ░░░░░░░░ to see both of ░░░░░░░░ Thanks for being here ░░░░░░░░ let me start with ░░░░░░░░ We re talking about ░░░░░░░░ issue of civilians and ░░░░░░░░ deaths in Gaza Let ░░░░░░░░ listen again to what ░░░░░░░░ Obama said about that ░░░░░░░░ clip starts OBAMA No ░░░░░░░░ for Hamas I have ░░░░░░░░ sympathy for ordinary people ░░░░░░░░ are struggling within Gaza ░░░░░░░░ ends TAPPER The president ░░░░░░░░ reiterated the right of ░░░░░░░░ to defend itself against ░░░░░░░░ attacks What did you ░░░░░░░░ of his comments today ░░░░░░░░ He is exactly right ░░░░░░░░ does have the right ░░░░░░░░ defend itself It also ░░░░░░░░ some better guarantees against ░░░░░░░░ rockets I was in ░░░░░░░░ with my 6 year ░░░░░░░░ daughter during the first ░░░░░░░░ of the war We ░░░░░░░░ in and out of ░░░░░░░░ It s very frightening ░░░░░░░░ ordinary Palestinians also need ░░░░░░░░ relief from a blockade ░░░░░░░░ has destroyed the Gazan ░░░░░░░░ and actually helped Hamas ░░░░░░░░ blockade has destroyed the ░░░░░░░░ business class in Gaza ░░░░░░░░ making exports virtually impossible ░░░░░░░░ s made it very ░░░░░░░░ for Gazan fishermen to ░░░░░░░░ a few miles out ░░░░░░░░ the coast Beyond that ░░░░░░░░ a humanitarian disaster it ░░░░░░░░ strengthens Hamas by creating ░░░░░░░░ the climate of despair ░░░░░░░░ hatred on which Hamas ░░░░░░░░ CAMEROTA You know it ░░░░░░░░ impossible to know the ░░░░░░░░ numbers We just put ░░░░░░░░ a graphic that shows ░░░░░░░░ the disparities in terms ░░░░░░░░ how many civilians have ░░░░░░░░ killed The two top ░░░░░░░░ there are groups in ░░░░░░░░ They say that 82 ░░░░░░░░ 84 percent of the ░░░░░░░░ have been civilians The ░░░░░░░░ Nations says 72 percent ░░░░░░░░ civilians Israel says only ░░░░░░░░ 50 percent So whose ░░░░░░░░ should we trust BEINART ░░░░░░░░ don t think we ░░░░░░░░ the exact number Israel ░░░░░░░░ CAMEROTA Hold on because ░░░░░░░░ this is for Ben ░░░░░░░░ you hear me Ben ░░░░░░░░ BEINART Oh sorry Please ░░░░░░░░ ahead Ben SHAPIRO Yes ░░░░░░░░ can now Thank you ░░░░░░░░ CAMEROTA Thank you SHAPIRO ░░░░░░░░ far as whose numbers ░░░░░░░░ should trust I can ░░░░░░░░ you whose numbers we ░░░░░░░░ t trust the same ░░░░░░░░ who said that 5 ░░░░░░░░ people had been killed ░░░░░░░░ Jenin which was false ░░░░░░░░ the same people who ░░░░░░░░ that two thirds of ░░░░░░░░ people killed in Operation ░░░░░░░░ Lead in 2008 2009 ░░░░░░░░ civilians which turned out ░░░░░░░░ be false or the ░░░░░░░░ people who have put ░░░░░░░░ on Hamas TV that ░░░░░░░░ should stick around in ░░░░░░░░ of the buildings surrounding ░░░░░░░░ entities Those people are ░░░░░░░░ not the folks that ░░░░░░░░ want to trust crosstalk ░░░░░░░░ But Ben are you ░░░░░░░░ about Hamas putting out ░░░░░░░░ numbers or these human ░░░░░░░░ groups in Gaza SHAPIRO ░░░░░░░░ m talking about human ░░░░░░░░ groups in Gaza which ░░░░░░░░ working with Hamas and ░░░░░░░░ Authority sources in order ░░░░░░░░ find those numbers How ░░░░░░░░ they get those numbers ░░░░░░░░ the first place You ░░░░░░░░ the fellow from the ░░░░░░░░ N say just a ░░░░░░░░ while ago that they ░░░░░░░░ working with both Palestinian ░░░░░░░░ Israeli sources Well the ░░░░░░░░ sources they are working ░░░░░░░░ on the ground in ░░░░░░░░ Gaza Strip are in ░░░░░░░░ part Hamas Palestinian Authority ░░░░░░░░ Islamic Jihad sources who ░░░░░░░░ a great interest in ░░░░░░░░ that the American people ░░░░░░░░ that the rest of ░░░░░░░░ world believe that a ░░░░░░░░ number of civilians have ░░░░░░░░ killed which it s ░░░░░░░░ same reason why they ░░░░░░░░ putting civilians in front ░░░░░░░░ rockets on a regular ░░░░░░░░ TAPPER Peter if I ░░░░░░░░ jump in I just ░░░░░░░░ to ask I m ░░░░░░░░ in your thoughts on ░░░░░░░░ debate about who is ░░░░░░░░ for the deaths of ░░░░░░░░ innocent Palestinians Obviously Israel ░░░░░░░░ out the military campaign ░░░░░░░░ individuals some critics saying ░░░░░░░░ s disproportionate not as ░░░░░░░░ as it should be ░░░░░░░░ then you do have ░░░░░░░░ that Hamas or at ░░░░░░░░ militants in Gaza are ░░░░░░░░ from population centers firing ░░░░░░░░ adjacent hospitals Do you ░░░░░░░░ that it s fair ░░░░░░░░ blame Hamas for the ░░░░░░░░ of Palestinians in Gaza ░░░░░░░░ I don t doubt ░░░░░░░░ all that Hamas is ░░░░░░░░ a strategy that is ░░░░░░░░ to increase civilian casualties ░░░░░░░░ operating from urban areas ░░░░░░░░ think Israel is bombing ░░░░░░░░ area which is very ░░░░░░░░ densely populated with some ░░░░░░░░ that are not all ░░░░░░░░ weapons And so it ░░░░░░░░ inevitable that a lot ░░░░░░░░ innocent civilians are going ░░░░░░░░ die And regardless of ░░░░░░░░ number the Talmud says ░░░░░░░░ whoever destroys a single ░░░░░░░░ life it s as ░░░░░░░░ he destroyed an entire ░░░░░░░░ So I m not ░░░░░░░░ interested in the specific ░░░░░░░░ What interests me is ░░░░░░░░ there a political strategy ░░░░░░░░ could have been pursued ░░░░░░░░ Hamas that would have ░░░░░░░░ so this war would ░░░░░░░░ have been possible What ░░░░░░░░ find most tragic is ░░░░░░░░ when you have peaceful ░░░░░░░░ resisters in the West ░░░░░░░░ they are repeatedly imprisoned ░░░░░░░░ Israel And so Palestinians ░░░░░░░░ the message that in ░░░░░░░░ nonviolence doesn t work ░░░░░░░░ real way to weaken ░░░░░░░░ is to show that ░░░░░░░░ who accept Israel s ░░░░░░░░ to exist and pursue ░░░░░░░░ grievances nonviolently as people ░░░░░░░░ villages like Balin and ░░░░░░░░ Salih have been doing ░░░░░░░░ a decade now that ░░░░░░░░ get results And tragically ░░░░░░░░ Israeli government has not ░░░░░░░░ that CAMEROTA Ben do ░░░░░░░░ want to take a ░░░░░░░░ at that SHAPIRO Sure ░░░░░░░░ nonsensical idea that Hamas ░░░░░░░░ firing rockets because somehow ░░░░░░░░ re mad about imprisonments ░░░░░░░░ the West Bank or ░░░░░░░░ they would stop firing ░░░░░░░░ if Israel were to ░░░░░░░░ the prisoners that it ░░░░░░░░ is nonsensical and idiotic ░░░░░░░░ fact Israel has just ░░░░░░░░ multiple prisoner releases with ░░░░░░░░ to terrorists vis a ░░░░░░░░ Israeli soldiers and that ░░░░░░░░ not seemed to quell ░░░░░░░░ with regard to Hamas ░░░░░░░░ Israel pulled out of ░░░░░░░░ Gaza Strip in 2005 ░░░░░░░░ launched the election of ░░░░░░░░ and then further violence ░░░░░░░░ idea that if Israel ░░░░░░░░ more and more concessions ░░░░░░░░ will somehow not embolden ░░░░░░░░ as opposed to creating ░░░░░░░░ movement against Hamas that ░░░░░░░░ not been proved by ░░░░░░░░ in any way shape ░░░░░░░░ form Peter always finds ░░░░░░░░ way to ensure that ░░░░░░░░ policy is somehow responsible ░░░░░░░░ rockets falling on Israeli ░░░░░░░░ when it s really ░░░░░░░░ doing the firing BEINART ░░░░░░░░ I m actually talking ░░░░░░░░ Palestinians who protest nonviolently ░░░░░░░░ conjunction with Israelis The ░░░░░░░░ to me is that ░░░░░░░░ Ben and Hamas have ░░░░░░░░ enormous amount in common ░░░░░░░░ doesn t believe that ░░░░░░░░ should be allowed to ░░░░░░░░ in the state of ░░░░░░░░ Ben has said that ░░░░░░░░ don t have the ░░░░░░░░ to live in Israel ░░░░░░░░ Bank or Gaza because ░░░░░░░░ s called for physically ░░░░░░░░ all of them So ░░░░░░░░ fact the true moral ░░░░░░░░ ideological partners Ben are ░░░░░░░░ and Hamas CAMEROTA Ben ░░░░░░░░ ahead SHAPIRO That is ░░░░░░░░ nonsense Peter BEINART You ░░░░░░░░ t write that column ░░░░░░░░ crosstalk SHAPIRO And to ░░░░░░░░ me equivalent with people ░░░░░░░░ are murdering Jews is ░░░░░░░░ It s beyond insulting ░░░░░░░░ if there is anybody ░░░░░░░░ is emboldening Hamas to ░░░░░░░░ more children it is ░░░░░░░░ because it s you ░░░░░░░░ policies which have emboldened ░░░░░░░░ They know that people ░░░░░░░░ you are going to ░░░░░░░░ on American television and ░░░░░░░░ about how the Palestinians ░░░░░░░░ meek victims and whenever ░░░░░░░░ fire rockets it can ░░░░░░░░ justified by Israeli policy ░░░░░░░░ celebrates every moment you ░░░░░░░░ on television Peter crosstalk ░░░░░░░░ All right gentlemen that ░░░░░░░░ it It s impossible ░░░░░░░░ have this conversation obviously ░░░░░░░░ some level of inflammatory ░░░░░░░░ But we thank both ░░░░░░░░ you for your perspective ░░░░░░░░ this Ben Shapiro Peter ░░░░░░░░ And Jake thanks so ░░░░░░░░ for being there in ░░░░░░░░