RUSH TRANSCRIPT Countries that ░░░░░░░░ home to four billion ░░░░░░░░ half the world are ░░░░░░░░ to cast ballots in ░░░░░░░░ this calendar year To ░░░░░░░░ break down some of ░░░░░░░░ most consequential races I ░░░░░░░░ joined by the editor ░░░░░░░░ whose winter issue is ░░░░░░░░ entirely on this very ░░░░░░░░ It s called the ░░░░░░░░ the world votes Joining ░░░░░░░░ also he is a ░░░░░░░░ affairs columnist at the ░░░░░░░░ Post and the author ░░░░░░░░ today s worldview newsletter ░░░░░░░░ of his latest columns ░░░░░░░░ on this exact issue ░░░░░░░░ to watch in 2024 ░░░░░░░░ global democracy on the ░░░░░░░░ Guys good to see ░░░░░░░░ thank you both for ░░░░░░░░ with us You shawn ░░░░░░░░ me start with you ░░░░░░░░ there s a refrain ░░░░░░░░ President Biden uses a ░░░░░░░░ in his speeches he ░░░░░░░░ certainly on the right ░░░░░░░░ of democracy but it ░░░░░░░░ on saying that democracy ░░░░░░░░ six eating and authoritarianism ░░░░░░░░ feeling around the world ░░░░░░░░ s actually not really ░░░░░░░░ We are far past ░░░░░░░░ age when you can ░░░░░░░░ say that freedom is ░░░░░░░░ history is ending liberal ░░░░░░░░ is the final state ░░░░░░░░ our governments We re ░░░░░░░░ beyond that And what ░░░░░░░░ host of organizations political ░░░░░░░░ think tanks have been ░░░░░░░░ for the last decade ░░░░░░░░ a pretty consistent retreat ░░░░░░░░ democracy and the quality ░░░░░░░░ democracy around the world ░░░░░░░░ are seeing the freedom ░░░░░░░░ for example here in ░░░░░░░░ has charted 17 years ░░░░░░░░ democratic recession Another major ░░░░░░░░ in sweden recently pointed ░░░░░░░░ six consecutive years of ░░░░░░░░ decline and the quality ░░░░░░░░ democracy elsewhere And we ░░░░░░░░ really seeing and these ░░░░░░░░ this year may show ░░░░░░░░ that the dominant spirit ░░░░░░░░ the age is a ░░░░░░░░ not liberalism Quality of ░░░░░░░░ is important I pointed ░░░░░░░░ Russia I pointed out ░░░░░░░░ both of them have ░░░░░░░░ but there s a ░░░░░░░░ of democracy problem there ░░░░░░░░ Timothy Snyder Yale points ░░░░░░░░ that often when countries ░░░░░░░░ away from democracy and ░░░░░░░░ way that the freedom ░░░░░░░░ shows that the United ░░░░░░░░ has dropped it s ░░░░░░░░ in a revolution It ░░░░░░░░ not somebody it s ░░░░░░░░ a coup It s ░░░░░░░░ somebody overtaking the democratic ░░░░░░░░ its people actually giving ░░░░░░░░ their rights slowly often ░░░░░░░░ voting I think people ░░░░░░░░ to conflate just the ░░░░░░░░ active voting with democracy ░░░░░░░░ say even though we ░░░░░░░░ in 2024 more people ░░░░░░░░ that in any other ░░░░░░░░ in the history of ░░░░░░░░ world as you shawn ░░░░░░░░ pointed out this is ░░░░░░░░ a year where democracy ░░░░░░░░ declined in quality for ░░░░░░░░ 17th consecutive year And ░░░░░░░░ of the challenge here ░░░░░░░░ to understand why people ░░░░░░░░ to be giving up ░░░░░░░░ rights that they have ░░░░░░░░ it is press freedom ░░░░░░░░ it is the independents ░░░░░░░░ the judiciary whether it ░░░░░░░░ rapid nationalism Why people ░░░░░░░░ elections around the world ░░░░░░░░ and again seem to ░░░░░░░░ voting for people who ░░░░░░░░ more illiberal than liberal ░░░░░░░░ part of that could ░░░░░░░░ because a certain trend ░░░░░░░░ ve now seen over ░░░░░░░░ last couple of decades ░░░░░░░░ leaders are more and ░░░░░░░░ skeptical about globalization leaders ░░░░░░░░ increasing on nationalism and ░░░░░░░░ it means to be ░░░░░░░░ member of a nation ░░░░░░░░ it means to define ░░░░░░░░ are we How do ░░░░░░░░ define ourselves Whether it ░░░░░░░░ through memory or history ░░░░░░░░ you put all of ░░░░░░░░ together whether it is ░░░░░░░░ whether it is bangladesh ░░░░░░░░ where you have actually ░░░░░░░░ fact leaders who are ░░░░░░░░ popular If you look ░░░░░░░░ many of the countries ░░░░░░░░ the world where incumbents ░░░░░░░░ coming up for election ░░░░░░░░ of them are slated ░░░░░░░░ come back to power ░░░░░░░░ part because they ve ░░░░░░░░ able to use the ░░░░░░░░ of the state to ░░░░░░░░ advantage Whether it is ░░░░░░░░ the judiciary to their ░░░░░░░░ whether it is controlling ░░░░░░░░ media and putting in ░░░░░░░░ ownership structures of media ░░░░░░░░ that end up leaning ░░░░░░░░ them All of that ░░░░░░░░ together as well as ░░░░░░░░ fact that you also ░░░░░░░░ in some countries a ░░░░░░░░ of the majority some ░░░░░░░░ these elections are more ░░░░░░░░ than others We definitely ░░░░░░░░ that if America retreats ░░░░░░░░ from democracy has influences ░░░░░░░░ other places in the ░░░░░░░░ one of them that ░░░░░░░░ m looking at is ░░░░░░░░ Tie once not voting ░░░░░░░░ its own independence it ░░░░░░░░ widely believed that they ░░░░░░░░ like their independence from ░░░░░░░░ But the results of ░░░░░░░░ election could further provoke ░░░░░░░░ already tense situation between ░░░░░░░░ and Taiwan There are ░░░░░░░░ of us watching and ░░░░░░░░ whether China will at ░░░░░░░░ point invade Taiwan What ░░░░░░░░ you make of that ░░░░░░░░ it also kind of ░░░░░░░░ the trend that we ░░░░░░░░ talking about more broadly ░░░░░░░░ illiberalism and nationalist governments ░░░░░░░░ You have in Taiwan ░░░░░░░░ incumbent party that is ░░░░░░░░ independents that certainly works ░░░░░░░░ and some of its ░░░░░░░░ domestic political rivals And ░░░░░░░░ return of the group ░░░░░░░░ Taiwan will be perhaps ░░░░░░░░ by Beijing as a ░░░░░░░░ for the need for ░░░░░░░░ greater kind of escalation ░░░░░░░░ greater ratcheting up of ░░░░░░░░ Because the prospect of ░░░░░░░░ reunification whatever it is ░░░░░░░░ Beijing says it wants ░░░░░░░░ the future of this ░░░░░░░░ is very remote under ░░░░░░░░ government Talking from India ░░░░░░░░ never know these days ░░░░░░░░ anybody is India literally ░░░░░░░░ biggest democracy in the ░░░░░░░░ It s a perfect ░░░░░░░░ It s got the ░░░░░░░░ it s a democracy ░░░░░░░░ majority will elect the ░░░░░░░░ they want to elect ░░░░░░░░ very much like hungary ░░░░░░░░ much like potentially what ░░░░░░░░ in the United States ░░░░░░░░ is getting increasingly illiberal ░░░░░░░░ you re right I ░░░░░░░░ in kolkata in India ░░░░░░░░ week So this is ░░░░░░░░ country that s going ░░░░░░░░ have elections spread out ░░░░░░░░ five weeks Every time ░░░░░░░░ goes to polls it ░░░░░░░░ the biggest election in ░░░░░░░░ history of the world ░░░░░░░░ because of the size ░░░░░░░░ the Indian population And ░░░░░░░░ prime minister is immensely ░░░░░░░░ However much the west ░░░░░░░░ criticize his style of ░░░░░░░░ the fact that he ░░░░░░░░ a strong man the ░░░░░░░░ that human rights and ░░░░░░░░ rights in particular have ░░░░░░░░ under his leadership the ░░░░░░░░ remains that this is ░░░░░░░░ fact what most indians ░░░░░░░░ to want They see ░░░░░░░░ as an embodiment of ░░░░░░░░ strongman leader that finally ░░░░░░░░ allowing for hindus to ░░░░░░░░ their way in the ░░░░░░░░ and part of this ░░░░░░░░ is a narrative that ░░░░░░░░ continued in India over ░░░░░░░░ last two terms but ░░░░░░░░ further back Hindus have ░░░░░░░░ hard done by by ░░░░░░░░ of first Muslim rule ░░░░░░░░ moguls and then British ░░░░░░░░ But again part of ░░░░░░░░ myth making of him ░░░░░░░░ part of the making ░░░░░░░░ nationalism is this sense ░░░░░░░░ us versus them which ░░░░░░░░ party is very effective ░░░░░░░░ creating and they re ░░░░░░░░ effective at using social ░░░░░░░░ to their advantage to ░░░░░░░░ and make very clear ░░░░░░░░ the people that they ░░░░░░░░ on their side They ░░░░░░░░ on the side of ░░░░░░░░ majority of indians which ░░░░░░░░ more than 80 or ░░░░░░░░ But it must be ░░░░░░░░ out as well that ░░░░░░░░ s economy has done ░░░░░░░░ well under him And ░░░░░░░░ as much as regular ░░░░░░░░ think about things like ░░░░░░░░ and human rights the ░░░░░░░░ tends to be the ░░░░░░░░ that ends up deciding ░░░░░░░░ of these elections that ░░░░░░░░ are discussing this year ░░░░░░░░ s going to work ░░░░░░░░ the ruling party in ░░░░░░░░ Africa This is a ░░░░░░░░ that since independence philosophically ░░░░░░░░ majority of south Africans ░░░░░░░░ the anc and it ░░░░░░░░ liberation movement that led ░░░░░░░░ the end of apartheid ░░░░░░░░ the economy is not ░░░░░░░░ better for a whole ░░░░░░░░ of people there The ░░░░░░░░ for the first time ░░░░░░░░ a long time is ░░░░░░░░ real trouble And you ░░░░░░░░ seeing the possibility that ░░░░░░░░ party that essentially draws ░░░░░░░░ origins from the previous ░░░░░░░░ era that has become ░░░░░░░░ wide leg Democrat Party ░░░░░░░░ come into power with ░░░░░░░░ coalition That at this ░░░░░░░░ is still not very ░░░░░░░░ It s going to ░░░░░░░░ a close race that ░░░░░░░░ anc you can never ░░░░░░░░ count against them But ░░░░░░░░ as you said concerns ░░░░░░░░ the economy over crime ░░░░░░░░ the various status quo ░░░░░░░░ that define South Africa ░░░░░░░░ these decades are really ░░░░░░░░ to a boil And ░░░░░░░░ see this more broadly ░░░░░░░░ the world Opinion polls ░░░░░░░░ that especially quite worryingly ░░░░░░░░ younger voters there s ░░░░░░░░ less idealism about what ░░░░░░░░ democratic system represents and ░░░░░░░░ be and far more ░░░░░░░░ and frustration with perceived ░░░░░░░░ of the political classes ░░░░░░░░ impunity for which they ░░░░░░░░ and of course the ░░░░░░░░ that our societies and ░░░░░░░░ to deliver economically to ░░░░░░░░ This is a conversation ░░░░░░░░ could be having four ░░░░░░░░ that I fortunately we ░░░░░░░░ have to have this ░░░░░░░░ for hours over the ░░░░░░░░ of this year But ░░░░░░░░ appreciate the remarkable coverage ░░░░░░░░ are both giving this ░░░░░░░░ really important topic I ░░░░░░░░ my viewers to follow ░░░░░░░░ and read your material ░░░░░░░░ is the editor and ░░░░░░░░ of foreign policy and ░░░░░░░░ a foreign affairs columnist ░░░░░░░░ the Washington Post I ░░░░░░░░ want to issue a ░░░░░░░░