Zerlina Maxwell: Kyle Rittenhouse & Ahmaud Arbery Cases Aren’t Really that Different

So if you think ░░░░░░░░ it the cases of ░░░░░░░░ Rittenhouse and the men ░░░░░░░░ killed ahmed arbore aren ░░░░░░░░ really that different both ░░░░░░░░ these cases involved men ░░░░░░░░ inserted themselves into situations ░░░░░░░░ didn t have to ░░░░░░░░ anything that they didn ░░░░░░░░ have anything to do ░░░░░░░░ and they killed people ░░░░░░░░ the process Rittenhouse parachuted ░░░░░░░░ into a protest over ░░░░░░░░ death of a black ░░░░░░░░ while wearing an AR ░░░░░░░░ yet somehow his defense ░░░░░░░░ just rested its case ░░░░░░░░ is claiming that he ░░░░░░░░ the victim that he ░░░░░░░░ for his life but ░░░░░░░░ one person who survived ░░░░░░░░ Rittenhouse s gunfire sees ░░░░░░░░ very differently to me ░░░░░░░░ seemed like a a ░░░░░░░░ who had just gotten ░░░░░░░░ doing something that he ░░░░░░░░ t supposed to more ░░░░░░░░ that he was gotten ░░░░░░░░ upset about what he ░░░░░░░░ done and what he ░░░░░░░░ taken and the numerous ░░░░░░░░ that he affected through ░░░░░░░░ actions that night meanwhile ░░░░░░░░ artery was just out ░░░░░░░░ a run when William ░░░░░░░░ and gregory and Travis ░░░░░░░░ approached him there s ░░░░░░░░ evidence to suggest that ░░░░░░░░ armory was stealing anything ░░░░░░░░ damaging anybody s property ░░░░░░░░ that didn t stop ░░░░░░░░ men from fatally shooting ░░░░░░░░ here s how one ░░░░░░░░ officer says gregory mcmichael ░░░░░░░░ the encounter what does ░░░░░░░░ mcmichael say on lines ░░░░░░░░ through six he he ░░░░░░░░ he was trapped like ░░░░░░░░ rat I think he ░░░░░░░░ wanting to flee and ░░░░░░░░ realized that something you ░░░░░░░░ he was not going ░░░░░░░░ get away and this ░░░░░░░░ of white men taking ░░░░░░░░ into their own hands ░░░░░░░░ to a third case ░░░░░░░░ in 2017 a 20 ░░░░░░░░ old named James fields ░░░░░░░░ from Ohio to Charlottesville ░░░░░░░░ to participate in a ░░░░░░░░ organized by white supremacists ░░░░░░░░ later drove his car ░░░░░░░░ a crowd of counter ░░░░░░░░ injuring dozens and killing ░░░░░░░░ woman named heather heyer ░░░░░░░░ has since been sentenced ░░░░░░░░ life in prison but ░░░░░░░░ now the organizers of ░░░░░░░░ rally in Charlottesville are ░░░░░░░░ in a civil trial ░░░░░░░░ conspiring to commit that ░░░░░░░░ and get this that ░░░░░░░░ has just become a ░░░░░░░░ for even more violent ░░░░░░░░ racist rhetoric that we ░░░░░░░░ been seeing from the ░░░░░░░░ who are often dropping ░░░░░░░░ n word and joking ░░░░░░░░ the Holocaust in court ░░░░░░░░ often it seems like ░░░░░░░░ feel the need to ░░░░░░░░ their masculinity by doing ░░░░░░░░ saying violent things whether ░░░░░░░░ s killing someone because ░░░░░░░░ felt the need to ░░░░░░░░ matters into their own ░░░░░░░░ or by tweeting an ░░░░░░░░ video in which they ░░░░░░░░ depicted killing a congresswoman ░░░░░░░░ is their colleague that ░░░░░░░░ just don t like ░░░░░░░░ some men violence seems ░░░░░░░░ a go to and ░░░░░░░░ question I want to ░░░░░░░░ tonight is why why ░░░░░░░░ greg and Travis mcmichael ░░░░░░░░ the need to chase ░░░░░░░░ and kill armored armory ░░░░░░░░ did the Charlottesville protesters ░░░░░░░░ the need to gather ░░░░░░░░ Walmart tiki torches and ░░░░░░░░ to violence and why ░░░░░░░░ Kyle Rittenhouse feel the ░░░░░░░░ to dress up like ░░░░░░░░ gi Joe soldier to ░░░░░░░░ property in kenosha Wisconsin ░░░░░░░░ wasn t his and ░░░░░░░░ just maybe it s ░░░░░░░░ that s what they ░░░░░░░░ masculinity looks like and ░░░░░░░░ us off tonight gender ░░░░░░░░ anti violence activist Jackson ░░░░░░░░ an MSNBC columnist and ░░░░░░░░ sister in feminism of ░░░░░░░░ Liz Plank Jackson I ░░░░░░░░ going to start with ░░░░░░░░ I I I saw ░░░░░░░░ link um fairly quickly ░░░░░░░░ I m sure you ░░░░░░░░ see the link in ░░░░░░░░ of these cases what ░░░░░░░░ it about the way ░░░░░░░░ teach and reinforce ideas ░░░░░░░░ masculinity that leads boys ░░░░░░░░ Kyle Rittenhouse and and ░░░░░░░░ of these other men ░░░░░░░░ listed here to resort ░░░░░░░░ picking up a gun ░░░░░░░░ doing something violent well ░░░░░░░░ first thanks for focusing ░░░░░░░░ this as erlina this ░░░░░░░░ such an incredibly important ░░░░░░░░ matter and and diving ░░░░░░░░ little bit deeper than ░░░░░░░░ headlines it s really ░░░░░░░░ I mean clearly the ░░░░░░░░ single the single quickest ░░░░░░░░ that a man or ░░░░░░░░ young man can establish ░░░░░░░░ manhood is through is ░░░░░░░░ violence right and and ░░░░░░░░ s true when with ░░░░░░░░ any number of settings ░░░░░░░░ in the political context ░░░░░░░░ s also important to ░░░░░░░░ that there s there ░░░░░░░░ been rhetoric on the ░░░░░░░░ for many years now ░░░░░░░░ to suggest that there ░░░░░░░░ s apocalyptic terms about ░░░░░░░░ they re losing the ░░░░░░░░ the country is going ░░░░░░░░ the tubes America as ░░░░░░░░ know it freedom as ░░░░░░░░ know it is threatened ░░░░░░░░ the tyrannical government all ░░░░░░░░ mobilization of that kind ░░░░░░░░ rhetoric that also by ░░░░░░░░ way taps into revolutionary ░░░░░░░░ era rhetoric like don ░░░░░░░░ tread on me the ░░░░░░░░ slogan from the revolutionary ░░░░░░░░ and the idea is ░░░░░░░░ young men and these ░░░░░░░░ men not just young ░░░░░░░░ see themselves as being ░░░░░░░░ the front edge of ░░░░░░░░ freedom and so using ░░░░░░░░ to defend freedom and ░░░░░░░░ defend their way of ░░░░░░░░ etc has has deep ░░░░░░░░ not just in American ░░░░░░░░ by the way this ░░░░░░░░ this is you know ░░░░░░░░ and but when you ░░░░░░░░ you when you take ░░░░░░░░ impressionable guys you know ░░░░░░░░ not just young and ░░░░░░░░ give them a reason ░░░░░░░░ use violence in a ░░░░░░░░ way or in a ░░░░░░░░ to establish or or ░░░░░░░░ perform their sort of ░░░░░░░░ for the cause then ░░░░░░░░ defend them if you ░░░░░░░░ right in right wing ░░░░░░░░ they re being defended ░░░░░░░░ Kyle Rittenhouse instead instead ░░░░░░░░ being like understood as ░░░░░░░░ really disturbed young man ░░░░░░░░ was very confused about ░░░░░░░░ whole bunch of things ░░░░░░░░ then acted incredibly inappropriately ░░░░░░░░ and perhaps murderously depending ░░░░░░░░ how you know how ░░░░░░░░ s uh you know ░░░░░░░░ adjudicated he s being ░░░░░░░░ about in right wing ░░░░░░░░ as almost heroic because ░░░░░░░░ he he had the ░░░░░░░░ and the strength to ░░░░░░░░ out and do something ░░░░░░░░ others may might not ░░░░░░░░ had the courage to ░░░░░░░░ which is completely to ░░░░░░░░ crazy because I m ░░░░░░░░ at this as a ░░░░░░░░ man who s just ░░░░░░░░ like does not really ░░░░░░░░ the consequences in a ░░░░░░░░ of his actions and ░░░░░░░░ filled with these fantasies ░░░░░░░░ s going to go ░░░░░░░░ a gun and he ░░░░░░░░ going to confront the ░░░░░░░░ know the the violent ░░░░░░░░ and some of us ░░░░░░░░ it that way some ░░░░░░░░ us see that as ░░░░░░░░ but on the right ░░░░░░░░ s seen as acting ░░░░░░░░ one of the things ░░░░░░░░ you ve talked a ░░░░░░░░ about Liz as well ░░░░░░░░ the the box that ░░░░░░░░ put men in so ░░░░░░░░ Jackson laid out there ░░░░░░░░ the ways in which ░░░░░░░░ on the right is ░░░░░░░░ men to behave in ░░░░░░░░ way um and and ░░░░░░░░ ve talked about how ░░░░░░░░ are expressing themselves this ░░░░░░░░ because we we only ░░░░░░░░ them like three or ░░░░░░░░ different options of ways ░░░░░░░░ they can be um ░░░░░░░░ that we re like ░░░░░░░░ here right in our ░░░░░░░░ and and that s ░░░░░░░░ can you unpack that ░░░░░░░░ bit and help us ░░░░░░░░ you know how we ░░░░░░░░ boxing men in and ░░░░░░░░ some of the consequences ░░░░░░░░ that are that we ░░░░░░░░ in some of these ░░░░░░░░ yes uh and you ░░░░░░░░ know you say there ░░░░░░░░ about three things that ░░░░░░░░ three emotions that they ░░░░░░░░ show actually when I ░░░░░░░░ uh men for for ░░░░░░░░ book there s only ░░░░░░░░ emotions really they you ░░░░░░░░ would say I can ░░░░░░░░ happy or I can ░░░░░░░░ angry uh I can ░░░░░░░░ be sad I can ░░░░░░░░ have any other you ░░░░░░░░ and and even for ░░░░░░░░ lot of men they ░░░░░░░░ t even know how ░░░░░░░░ re feeling right they ░░░░░░░░ t don t even ░░░░░░░░ the emotional or the ░░░░░░░░ to talk about the ░░░░░░░░ that they re feeling ░░░░░░░░ this isn t because ░░░░░░░░ re stupid uh because ░░░░░░░░ will be boys and ░░░░░░░░ they can t actually ░░░░░░░░ anything right they are ░░░░░░░░ emotional beings and creatures ░░░░░░░░ like women um but ░░░░░░░░ but they haven t ░░░░░░░░ given that latitude and ░░░░░░░░ the best way for ░░░░░░░░ to talk about it ░░░░░░░░ like a you know ░░░░░░░░ our emotions should be ░░░░░░░░ a swiss army knife ░░░░░░░░ that um all of ░░░░░░░░ should have access to ░░░░░░░░ whole range of different ░░░░░░░░ uh in in order ░░░░░░░░ just to feel things ░░░░░░░░ to also manage um ░░░░░░░░ express how we re ░░░░░░░░ right and and cope ░░░░░░░░ how we re feeling ░░░░░░░░ women are given a ░░░░░░░░ range of of of ░░░░░░░░ tools and men basically ░░░░░░░░ told there s only ░░░░░░░░ of them that you ░░░░░░░░ use um and and ░░░░░░░░ Jackson s uh point ░░░░░░░░ very often that s ░░░░░░░░ and I just find ░░░░░░░░ really really fascinating watching ░░░░░░░░ written house watching his ░░░░░░░░ right we re not ░░░░░░░░ to seeing male tears ░░░░░░░░ when we do see ░░░░░░░░ um it is in ░░░░░░░░ case of rin house ░░░░░░░░ himself really the only ░░░░░░░░ or or as Jamil ░░░░░░░░ said on in an ░░░░░░░░ article on box everyone ░░░░░░░░ go read that that ░░░░░░░░ that he made himself ░░░░░░░░ lone a you know ░░░░░░░░ victim of this trial ░░░░░░░░ and we saw in ░░░░░░░░ case of Brett Kavanaugh ░░░░░░░░ making himself the victim ░░░░░░░░ a case of alleged ░░░░░░░░ or attempted rape um ░░░░░░░░ a a young woman ░░░░░░░░ so there is space ░░░░░░░░ uh male tears right ░░░░░░░░ is space for their ░░░░░░░░ but it s only ░░░░░░░░ it reinforces the status ░░░░░░░░ right it s only ░░░░░░░░ reinforces them as as ░░░░░░░░ as really victims uh ░░░░░░░░ trying to to to ░░░░░░░░ of reinstate their masculinity ░░░░░░░░ perform their masculinity and ░░░░░░░░ that is really denied ░░░░░░░░ when we re allowed ░░░░░░░░ see them as as ░░░░░░░░ what do you think ░░░░░░░░ him crying I ll ░░░░░░░░ craig in quotes because ░░░░░░░░ didn t see a ░░░░░░░░ but obviously I was ░░░░░░░░ on my device so ░░░░░░░░ don t I can ░░░░░░░░ prove it and we ░░░░░░░░ about it yesterday that ░░░░░░░░ not really the point ░░░░░░░░ think the point is ░░░░░░░░ of the imagery of ░░░░░░░░ him breaking down Jackson ░░░░░░░░ you know what message ░░░░░░░░ that was that a ░░░░░░░░ was how did you ░░░░░░░░ the crying I mean ░░░░░░░░ mentioned Brett Kavanaugh which ░░░░░░░░ which I immediately thought ░░░░░░░░ as well how do ░░░░░░░░ read the crying in ░░░░░░░░ context of of this ░░░░░░░░ and the box of ░░░░░░░░ um that we have ░░░░░░░░ men in that um ░░░░░░░░ can be sad you ░░░░░░░░ be angry or you ░░░░░░░░ be happy or crying ░░░░░░░░ suppose when some of ░░░░░░░░ things are challenged well ░░░░░░░░ would I would say ░░░░░░░░ building on Liz s ░░░░░░░░ it s it s ░░░░░░░░ I mean in other ░░░░░░░░ there s a set ░░░░░░░░ rules about how what ░░░░░░░░ men can display certain ░░░░░░░░ of emotions and this ░░░░░░░░ complexified by race and ░░░░░░░░ and social class and ░░░░░░░░ who grow up in ░░░░░░░░ own sort of culture ░░░░░░░░ their own context tend ░░░░░░░░ know those rules um ░░░░░░░░ because you have to ░░░░░░░░ a survival mechanism from ░░░░░░░░ earliest ages and there ░░░░░░░░ there are times for ░░░░░░░░ who even the most ░░░░░░░░ men can actually cry ░░░░░░░░ it s seen as ░░░░░░░░ because it doesn t ░░░░░░░░ their masculinity in those ░░░░░░░░ instances if they if ░░░░░░░░ evidence those kinds of ░░░░░░░░ unquote vulnerable emotions in ░░░░░░░░ contexts then they would ░░░░░░░░ undermining their presentation of ░░░░░░░░ as being in control ░░░░░░░░ thing that Kyle Rittenhouse ░░░░░░░░ going for is he ░░░░░░░░ young and so I ░░░░░░░░ a lot of people ░░░░░░░░ it can say maybe ░░░░░░░░ there was some genuine ░░░░░░░░ mean I know there ░░░░░░░░ a lot of people ░░░░░░░░ are very cynical about ░░░░░░░░ about his performance but ░░░░░░░░ could say that the ░░░░░░░░ of being on the ░░░░░░░░ witness stand in a ░░░░░░░░ knowing that there are ░░░░░░░░ there potentially serious consequences ░░░░░░░░ his behavior might have ░░░░░░░░ him I mean I ░░░░░░░░ I saw it somewhat ░░░░░░░░ even though I m ░░░░░░░░ empathetic at all with ░░░░░░░░ behavior I thought maybe ░░░░░░░░ is a vulnerable kid ░░░░░░░░ who s now realizing ░░░░░░░░ s there could be ░░░░░░░░ serious consequences coming down ░░░░░░░░ what I ve done ░░░░░░░░ he what he he ░░░░░░░░ that the vulnerability was ░░░░░░░░ was authentic that s ░░░░░░░░ him the benefit of ░░░░░░░░ doubt and I m ░░░░░░░░ I m not here ░░░░░░░░ you know I don ░░░░░░░░ know Kyle you know ░░░░░░░░ Rittenhouse but can I ░░░░░░░░ say because I want ░░░░░░░░ make sure I just ░░░░░░░░ a chance to say ░░░░░░░░ there s also the ░░░░░░░░ of Josh Hawley making ░░░░░░░░ uh speech about manhood ░░░░░░░░ the Republican Party has ░░░░░░░░ known for 50 years ░░░░░░░░ they have to roll ░░░░░░░░ large white male majorities ░░░░░░░░ the countries got more ░░░░░░░░ and racially uh diverse ░░░░░░░░ women s the women ░░░░░░░░ vote has become more ░░░░░░░░ more important the Republican ░░░░░░░░ knows that they need ░░░░░░░░ run up the numbers ░░░░░░░░ white male voters and ░░░░░░░░ some of this is ░░░░░░░░ the context of that ░░░░░░░░ picture you know like ░░░░░░░░ when Josh Hawley made ░░░░░░░░ comments about you know ░░░░░░░░ s an attack on ░░░░░░░░ and this is to ░░░░░░░░ point that Liz made ░░░░░░░░ you know the victimization ░░░░░░░░ so so much of ░░░░░░░░ way that some white ░░░░░░░░ have framed themselves whether ░░░░░░░░ s Brett Kavanaugh or ░░░░░░░░ know Kyle ryden house ░░░░░░░░ also all kinds of ░░░░░░░░ men as the victims ░░░░░░░░ you will of whether ░░░░░░░░ s cancel culture woke ░░░░░░░░ feminism me too it ░░░░░░░░ like it flips it ░░░░░░░░ everything on its head ░░░░░░░░ because now the the ░░░░░░░░ powerful social position white ░░░░░░░░ especially white men with ░░░░░░░░ but not exclusively are ░░░░░░░░ the ones who are ░░░░░░░░ re supposed to be ░░░░░░░░ sorry for because they ░░░░░░░░ now being you know ░░░░░░░░ or they re being ░░░░░░░░ or their privilege is ░░░░░░░░ questioned and challenged and ░░░░░░░░ though I know on ░░░░░░░░ level that s absurd ░░░░░░░░ way it s experienced ░░░░░░░░ real and then Liz ░░░░░░░░ about this in her ░░░░░░░░ it s you know ░░░░░░░░ the feeling of loss ░░░░░░░░ feeling of you know ░░░░░░░░ m no longer on ░░░░░░░░ stage I m no ░░░░░░░░ being validated in the ░░░░░░░░ that maybe previous generations ░░░░░░░░ my own family of ░░░░░░░░ were validated I feel ░░░░░░░░ I I have some ░░░░░░░░ I ve lost something ░░░░░░░░ this one of the ░░░░░░░░ why Donald Trump won ░░░░░░░░ 2016 was because there ░░░░░░░░ millions and millions of ░░░░░░░░ men and of course ░░░░░░░░ white women who are ░░░░░░░░ to those white men ░░░░░░░░ various ways but white ░░░░░░░░ who have felt embattled ░░░░░░░░ you know I might ░░░░░░░░ the man card you ░░░░░░░░ white male identity politics ░░░░░░░░ Nixon to Trump which ░░░░░░░░ out last year was ░░░░░░░░ about how the past ░░░░░░░░ years of sort of ░░░░░░░░ politics has created the ░░░░░░░░ for this playing out ░░░░░░░░ this white male uh ░░░░░░░░ resentment and and victimization ░░░░░░░░ and one of the ░░░░░░░░ ways to again to ░░░░░░░░ what has been lost ░░░░░░░░ through the use of ░░░░░░░░ violence or redemptive violence ░░░░░░░░ one one last thing ░░░░░░░░ domestic violence connection is ░░░░░░░░ strong in the sense ░░░░░░░░ when men are in ░░░░░░░░ say heterosexual men who ░░░░░░░░ physically abusive to their ░░░░░░░░ or girlfriends it s ░░░░░░░░ when they re they ░░░░░░░░ violent when they can ░░░░░░░░ get what they want ░░░░░░░░ they can t gain ░░░░░░░░ from the woman without ░░░░░░░░ force so for example ░░░░░░░░ January 6 insurrection is ░░░░░░░░ example of that like ░░░░░░░░ couldn t win a ░░░░░░░░ um you know a ░░░░░░░░ election if you will ░░░░░░░░ through the legal means ░░░░░░░░ they re going to ░░░░░░░░ it through force which ░░░░░░░░ exactly what men who ░░░░░░░░ batterers are doing in ░░░░░░░░ relational context so I ░░░░░░░░ there s all kinds ░░░░░░░░ sort of connections between ░░░░░░░░ personal and the political ░░░░░░░░ the larger context and ░░░░░░░░ and the micro it ░░░░░░░░ so fascinating and we ░░░░░░░░ talked on this show ░░░░░░░░ Scott mcfarlane who s ░░░░░░░░ D C based reporter ░░░░░░░░ the local D C ░░░░░░░░ affiliate and he has ░░░░░░░░ in the court for ░░░░░░░░ of these hearings and ░░░░░░░░ of the things we ░░░░░░░░ him was what s ░░░░░░░░ link that connects all ░░░░░░░░ these cases together and ░░░░░░░░ surprised me by saying ░░░░░░░░ and a history of ░░░░░░░░ against women is the ░░░░░░░░ that links many of ░░░░░░░░ cases that are being ░░░░░░░░ with insurrectionists in D ░░░░░░░░ to one another Jackson ░░░░░░░░ was playing I wish ░░░░░░░░ had 25 more minutes ░░░░░░░░ I feel like this ░░░░░░░░ a conversation we need ░░░░░░░░ keep having so we ░░░░░░░░ going to continue to ░░░░░░░░ having it but I ░░░░░░░░ glad we had you ░░░░░░░░ Jackson cats and Liz ░░░░░░░░ thank you so much ░░░░░░░░ being here starting us ░░░░░░░░ tonight please stay safe ░░░░░░░░ I m Zerlina Maxwell ░░░░░░░░ for checking out our ░░░░░░░░ on youtube you can ░░░░░░░░ more from zerlina by ░░░░░░░░ any of the videos ░░░░░░░░ this screen and make ░░░░░░░░ you subscribe below to ░░░░░░░░ up to date on ░░░░░░░░ day s biggest stories ░░░░░░░░ for watching