NYT Columnist Suggests Chinese Communist Party Runs Technology in... Idaho?

[Music China and the ░░░░░░░░ States issued a joint ░░░░░░░░ on the climate crisis ░░░░░░░░ the weekend many believe ░░░░░░░░ unified actions against climate ░░░░░░░░ could be able to ░░░░░░░░ the two countries cut ░░░░░░░░ the difficulty anchor on ░░░░░░░░ I talked to Thomas ░░░░░░░░ whom I have enjoyed ░░░░░░░░ conversations with over the ░░░░░░░░ he s also participating ░░░░░░░░ this year s world ░░░░░░░░ and here are his ░░░░░░░░ um I actually saw ░░░░░░░░ kerry before he departed ░░░░░░░░ China you know China ░░░░░░░░ is highly dependent on ░░░░░░░░ so uh China also ░░░░░░░░ a lot with wind ░░░░░░░░ solar and hydro and ░░░░░░░░ other things but it ░░░░░░░░ still using a lot ░░░░░░░░ coal I think the ░░░░░░░░ of kerry is this ░░░░░░░░ he wants America to ░░░░░░░░ increase our commitments okay ░░░░░░░░ it s very hard ░░░░░░░░ get America to increase ░░░░░░░░ commitments if there s ░░░░░░░░ perception that China is ░░░░░░░░ reliant on a lot ░░░░░░░░ coal because politically here ░░░░░░░░ will happen is people ░░░░░░░░ say well why should ░░░░░░░░ take on greater costs ░░░░░░░░ clean technologies when our ░░░░░░░░ uh trade competitor China ░░░░░░░░ t so we ve ░░░░░░░░ to find a way ░░░░░░░░ harmonize what America and ░░░░░░░░ are doing on this ░░░░░░░░ both countries will use ░░░░░░░░ other as an excuse ░░░░░░░░ do less rather than ░░░░░░░░ it seems that I ░░░░░░░░ to disagree on that ░░░░░░░░ with my good friend ░░░░░░░░ China has already committed ░░░░░░░░ carbon zero 20 60 ░░░░░░░░ neutrality and you know ░░░░░░░░ carbon zero to carbon ░░░░░░░░ 30 years that s ░░░░░░░░ very very short compared ░░░░░░░░ the us experience which ░░░░░░░░ like 50 years the ░░░░░░░░ experience which is less ░░░░░░░░ to be 80 years ░░░░░░░░ more so from those ░░░░░░░░ one could see the ░░░░░░░░ is high and now ░░░░░░░░ is working on the ░░░░░░░░ but we haven t ░░░░░░░░ much about the us ░░░░░░░░ and exactly what the ░░░░░░░░ is you know basically ░░░░░░░░ s going on in ░░░░░░░░ is that we are ░░░░░░░░ we re basically phasing ░░░░░░░░ of coal that that ░░░░░░░░ happened under trump not ░░░░░░░░ because trump wanted it ░░░░░░░░ because the market really ░░░░░░░░ it um and you ░░░░░░░░ still have a lot ░░░░░░░░ cities um uh and ░░░░░░░░ in China um that ░░░░░░░░ committed to coal because ░░░░░░░░ have a lot of ░░░░░░░░ and it s cheap ░░░░░░░░ it s a job ░░░░░░░░ and so I think ░░░░░░░░ ve got to harmonize ░░░░░░░░ two things China to ░░░░░░░░ credit has set some ░░░░░░░░ high aspirational goals um ░░░░░░░░ America under Biden is ░░░░░░░░ the same and I ░░░░░░░░ that this dialogue between ░░░░░░░░ Kerry and China s ░░░░░░░░ team is very help ░░░░░░░░ healthy because if you ░░░░░░░░ back to paris what ░░░░░░░░ only happened because the ░░░░░░░░ and China and India ░░░░░░░░ got together that s ░░░░░░░░ made paris happen and ░░░░░░░░ uh glasgow the next ░░░░░░░░ of of climate um ░░░░░░░░ yeah it s only ░░░░░░░░ to work if China ░░░░░░░░ America are working together ░░░░░░░░ here s one thing ░░░░░░░░ north and south thing ░░░░░░░░ know it s not ░░░░░░░░ the freshest topic the ░░░░░░░░ talk has been so ░░░░░░░░ to achieve any consensus ░░░░░░░░ developing countries and developed ░░░░░░░░ have very different history ░░░░░░░░ terms of how they ░░░░░░░░ into the world s ░░░░░░░░ and has been polluting ░░░░░░░░ world so to speak ░░░░░░░░ question is very fair ░░░░░░░░ got to go dirty ░░░░░░░░ we really fully understood ░░░░░░░░ implications to the climate ░░░░░░░░ dirty a lot longer ░░░░░░░░ any developing country so ░░░░░░░░ obligation it seems to ░░░░░░░░ is to uh grow ░░░░░░░░ faster and use our ░░░░░░░░ to bring the price ░░░░░░░░ clean green technologies down ░░░░░░░░ so the south countries ░░░░░░░░ developing countries can get ░░░░░░░░ to them deploy them ░░░░░░░░ what I what I ░░░░░░░░ about what you and ░░░░░░░░ are doing right now ░░░░░░░░ John Kerry is doing ░░░░░░░░ his chinese counterparts is ░░░░░░░░ re engaging in what ░░░░░░░░ call the earth race ░░░░░░░░ know in the 60s ░░░░░░░░ and the soviet union ░░░░░░░░ the space race right ░░░░░░░░ could be the first ░░░░░░░░ put a man on ░░░░░░░░ moon um or a ░░░░░░░░ on the moon um ░░░░░░░░ China and America need ░░░░░░░░ have is the earth ░░░░░░░░ where we compete with ░░░░░░░░ other for who can ░░░░░░░░ the most clean green ░░░░░░░░ so men and women ░░░░░░░░ and animals can stay ░░░░░░░░ healthily on earth the ░░░░░░░░ issue is about industrial ░░░░░░░░ when China put out ░░░░░░░░ plan 2025 there were ░░░░░░░░ amount of criticism against ░░░░░░░░ s so called industrial ░░░░░░░░ that s not the ░░░░░░░░ it should be and ░░░░░░░░ the bite administration coming ░░░░░░░░ power and suggests let ░░░░░░░░ have very strong industrial ░░░░░░░░ uh I m confused ░░░░░░░░ s going on uh ░░░░░░░░ think that we are ░░░░░░░░ really in a process ░░░░░░░░ transition here and you ░░░░░░░░ going to see America ░░░░░░░░ a much more uh ░░░░░░░░ like industrial policy approach ░░░░░░░░ we ll do it ░░░░░░░░ our own way um ░░░░░░░░ we we really don ░░░░░░░░ have state owned industries ░░░░░░░░ I think you ll ░░░░░░░░ a much more intense ░░░░░░░░ to have government support ░░░░░░░░ research government support for ░░░░░░░░ industries through tax breaks ░░░░░░░░ are going to adopt ░░░░░░░░ of China s methods ░░░░░░░░ than trying to force ░░░░░░░░ to adopt our message ░░░░░░░░ is what a lot ░░░░░░░░ the trade negotiations kind ░░░░░░░░ had been about and ░░░░░░░░ I I think you ░░░░░░░░ see a lot more ░░░░░░░░ policy in America I ░░░░░░░░ there s a perception ░░░░░░░░ it s the only ░░░░░░░░ we can remain competitive ░░░░░░░░ and you re right ░░░░░░░░ point out the the ░░░░░░░░ consensus on that has ░░░░░░░░ here but think about ░░░░░░░░ the moonshot the gene ░░░░░░░░ and even now Elon ░░░░░░░░ working on the outer ░░░░░░░░ exploration with huge support ░░░░░░░░ from nasa all of ░░░░░░░░ are industrial policies and ░░░░░░░░ date back decades ago ░░░░░░░░ could argue that China ░░░░░░░░ learned from the United ░░░░░░░░ to begin with tom ░░░░░░░░ yeah I think it ░░░░░░░░ it s a fair ░░░░░░░░ and I think that ░░░░░░░░ re seeing much more ░░░░░░░░ a convergence between our ░░░░░░░░ economies and I think ░░░░░░░░ one is seeing what ░░░░░░░░ the best of the ░░░░░░░░ that they can adopt ░░░░░░░░ drive their own economies ░░░░░░░░ they re still going ░░░░░░░░ be and still are ░░░░░░░░ trade issues reciprocity access ░░░░░░░░ are going to be ░░░░░░░░ issues they remain real ░░░░░░░░ where I think there ░░░░░░░░ legitimate American complaints but ░░░░░░░░ speaking as as globalization ░░░░░░░░ the world way from ░░░░░░░░ large to size medium ░░░░░░░░ size small you re ░░░░░░░░ all these economies converging ░░░░░░░░ a lot of ways ░░░░░░░░ I was reading some ░░░░░░░░ your wonderful articles in ░░░░░░░░ I m a fan ░░░░░░░░ like millions around the ░░░░░░░░ tom thank you you ░░░░░░░░ about the world is ░░░░░░░░ in the way that ░░░░░░░░ and the United States ░░░░░░░░ necessarily about this what ░░░░░░░░ call the unconscious convergence ░░░░░░░░ but now into a ░░░░░░░░ in which ideology has ░░░░░░░░ the leading force shaping ░░░░░░░░ two sides against each ░░░░░░░░ now if there s ░░░░░░░░ as you argued earlier ░░░░░░░░ we are learning each ░░░░░░░░ why should we allow ░░░░░░░░ which is rather very ░░░░░░░░ a concept to divide ░░░░░░░░ two and let that ░░░░░░░░ everything well you know ░░░░░░░░ argument I was making ░░░░░░░░ you ve alluded to ░░░░░░░░ that um I believe ░░░░░░░░ era 1979 to 2019 ░░░░░░░░ go down as an ░░░░░░░░ in u s China ░░░░░░░░ uh and it s ░░░░░░░░ epic I call it ░░░░░░░░ integration where if I ░░░░░░░░ to have a supply ░░░░░░░░ that started in tianjin ░░░░░░░░ if I wanted to ░░░░░░░░ a factory in China ░░░░░░░░ I wanted my daughters ░░░░░░░░ study um at fudon ░░░░░░░░ I could do all ░░░░░░░░ that kind of unconsciously ░░░░░░░░ to really think about ░░░░░░░░ and if you you ░░░░░░░░ wanted to have um ░░░░░░░░ their stocks listed on ░░░░░░░░ NASDAQ uh uh and ░░░░░░░░ part of a factory ░░░░░░░░ Ohio chinese could do ░░░░░░░░ as well and so ░░░░░░░░ was there was a ░░░░░░░░ of unconscious in that ░░░░░░░░ didn t have to ░░░░░░░░ a lot about it ░░░░░░░░ because of that China ░░░░░░░░ America in my view ░░░░░░░░ the real one country ░░░░░░░░ systems not China Hong ░░░░░░░░ really China in America ░░░░░░░░ became one country two ░░░░░░░░ with a lot of ░░░░░░░░ you know whatever now ░░░░░░░░ began to break down ░░░░░░░░ 10 years ago because ░░░░░░░░ most of those 40 ░░░░░░░░ America sold China what ░░░░░░░░ call deep goods deep ░░░░░░░░ things like computers and ░░░░░░░░ things that went deep ░░░░░░░░ China s system and ░░░░░░░░ had to buy our ░░░░░░░░ goods because it didn ░░░░░░░░ have them and could ░░░░░░░░ make them um we ░░░░░░░░ and China sent us ░░░░░░░░ I call shallow goods ░░░░░░░░ I wore on my ░░░░░░░░ my shoes my feet ░░░░░░░░ panels I put on ░░░░░░░░ roof well about 10 ░░░░░░░░ ago and this is ░░░░░░░░ very good thing China ░░░░░░░░ the capability also to ░░░░░░░░ deep goods that s ░░░░░░░░ huawei 5g represents but ░░░░░░░░ we come to a ░░░░░░░░ when we only bought ░░░░░░░░ s shallow goods way ░░░░░░░░ didn t care at ░░░░░░░░ okay but when it ░░░░░░░░ but when it comes ░░░░░░░░ buying your deep goods ░░░░░░░░ the question of values ░░░░░░░░ matters we re seeing ░░░░░░░░ that this era of ░░░░░░░░ integration is over now ░░░░░░░░ saddens me for this ░░░░░░░░ that the globalization that ░░░░░░░░ happened in the world ░░░░░░░░ the last 40 years ░░░░░░░░ been so much driven ░░░░░░░░ u s China relations ░░░░░░░░ that unconscious integration and ░░░░░░░░ a result of that ░░░░░░░░ world became more prosperous ░░░░░░░░ more peaceful if this ░░░░░░░░ integration ends and it ░░░░░░░░ seem to be ending ░░░░░░░░ world will be less ░░░░░░░░ and it will be ░░░░░░░░ peaceful having said that ░░░░░░░░ you know the whole ░░░░░░░░ rights issue is a ░░░░░░░░ important debate we didn ░░░░░░░░ see that debate go ░░░░░░░░ in depth but rather ░░░░░░░░ at political level so ░░░░░░░░ should be our priority ░░░░░░░░ whether it is still ░░░░░░░░ to be able to ░░░░░░░░ sure that we do ░░░░░░░░ well while we preach ░░░░░░░░ it doesn t matter ░░░░░░░░ as long as it ░░░░░░░░ a political tool you ░░░░░░░░ um I think substance ░░░░░░░░ does matter you know ░░░░░░░░ uh we kind of ░░░░░░░░ some confidence building measures ░░░░░░░░ now between our two ░░░░░░░░ yes and and both ░░░░░░░░ countries um I think ░░░░░░░░ would be we would ░░░░░░░░ from each doing something ░░░░░░░░ little hard not something ░░░░░░░░ but something hard um ░░░░░░░░ my view uh if ░░░░░░░░ China took um steps ░░░░░░░░ to provide transparency on ░░░░░░░░ s going on with ░░░░░░░░ um uh if nothing ░░░░░░░░ to to take steps ░░░░░░░░ um democracy on Hong ░░░░░░░░ however however big but ░░░░░░░░ that said okay we ░░░░░░░░ you it would have ░░░░░░░░ big impact here at ░░░░░░░░ same time China may ░░░░░░░░ to the United States ░░░░░░░░ we we need you ░░░░░░░░ take steps say on ░░░░░░░░ you you just put ░░░░░░░░ death sentence on our ░░░░░░░░ technology company one of ░░░░░░░░ things I ve actually ░░░░░░░░ is that we say ░░░░░░░░ huawei we re going ░░░░░░░░ let you wire um ░░░░░░░░ single state Idaho say ░░░░░░░░ a couple years and ░░░░░░░░ will test and we ░░░░░░░░ see how it goes ░░░░░░░░ we need to build ░░░░░░░░ pathway for huawei to ░░░░░░░░ what we consider a ░░░░░░░░ international actor we each ░░░░░░░░ think need to do ░░░░░░░░ hard to get these ░░░░░░░░ attention yeah and to ░░░░░░░░ what is kind of ░░░░░░░░ fever right now a ░░░░░░░░ that s that s ░░░░░░░░ getting worse and worse ░░░░░░░░ worse and taking the ░░░░░░░░ into directions that I ░░░░░░░░ are really unhealthy for ░░░░░░░░ other and the world ░░░░░░░░ s really constructive suggestion ░░░░░░░░ would say tom my ░░░░░░░░ I m a journalist ░░░░░░░░ I m always pessimistic ░░░░░░░░ a certain extent you ░░░░░░░░ that my concern is ░░░░░░░░ the right thing when ░░░░░░░░ is being done and ░░░░░░░░ and also discussed will ░░░░░░░░ shaped totally in a ░░░░░░░░ way I m just ░░░░░░░░ when the air is ░░░░░░░░ everything becomes poisoned no ░░░░░░░░ how good the delicacy ░░░░░░░░ are that is my ░░░░░░░░ tom am I overreacted ░░░░░░░░ you re not um ░░░░░░░░ re a group of ░░░░░░░░ s a body of ░░░░░░░░ um uh in our ░░░░░░░░ system who have you ░░░░░░░░ ill will toward China ░░░░░░░░ they think it s ░░░░░░░░ communist menace and a ░░░░░░░░ you know um there ░░░░░░░░ uh people like myself ░░░░░░░░ have been committed to ░░░░░░░░ bridges where possible and ░░░░░░░░ red lines where necessary ░░░░░░░░ we disagree unfortunately way ░░░░░░░░ part of the coalition ░░░░░░░░ political debate as it ░░░░░░░░ is really is really ░░░░░░░░ we ve been weakened ░░░░░░░░ think in my view ░░░░░░░░ things China has done ░░░░░░░░ uh but we ve ░░░░░░░░ weakened and um I ░░░░░░░░ there s a mirror ░░░░░░░░ the chinese side there ░░░░░░░░ are hardliners in China ░░░░░░░░ believe America exists purely ░░░░░░░░ put China down to ░░░░░░░░ its rise you know ░░░░░░░░ sit back some days ░░░░░░░░ ask myself like but ░░░░░░░░ are we fighting about ░░░░░░░░ do we afford to ░░░░░░░░ do I think China ░░░░░░░░ to occupy los angeles ░░░░░░░░ I mean really does ░░░░░░░░ in China think America ░░░░░░░░ to occupy shanghai I ░░░░░░░░ it s not like ░░░░░░░░ nazis in Europe you ░░░░░░░░ I mean what what ░░░░░░░░ we ve really got ░░░░░░░░ are two a a ░░░░░░░░ uh legacy power and ░░░░░░░░ rising power and they ░░░░░░░░ in this sort of ░░░░░░░░ to figure out how ░░░░░░░░ actually coexist with each ░░░░░░░░ right from an American ░░░░░░░░ of view see we ░░░░░░░░ used we ve had ░░░░░░░░ you know that that ░░░░░░░░ ve um uh like ░░░░░░░░ soviet union we had ░░░░░░░░ cold war with but ░░░░░░░░ were never our economic ░░░░░░░░ China is our economic ░░░░░░░░ one day it may ░░░░░░░░ our our equal Monday ░░░░░░░░ may be our superior ░░░░░░░░ all I know you ░░░░░░░░ what I mean and ░░░░░░░░ re wrestling with that ░░░░░░░░ issue as is China ░░░░░░░░ only thing I can ░░░░░░░░ is what you and ░░░░░░░░ are doing is healthy ░░░░░░░░ I am missing and ░░░░░░░░ what is not the ░░░░░░░░ solution but wesley part ░░░░░░░░ the solution is what ░░░░░░░░ and I are doing ░░░░░░░░ I could go to ░░░░░░░░ bowel form and talk ░░░░░░░░ people could ask me ░░░░░░░░ questions and I could ░░░░░░░░ as best I could ░░░░░░░░ what what what s ░░░░░░░░ the situation worse is ░░░░░░░░ re not just in ░░░░░░░░ but we re we ░░░░░░░░ disconnecting so that s ░░░░░░░░ anytime I m invited ░░░░░░░░ to something like this ░░░░░░░░ by friend like you ░░░░░░░░ I take advantage of ░░░░░░░░ right I speak my ░░░░░░░░ I speak as frankly ░░░░░░░░ I can and I ░░░░░░░░ appreciate it having said ░░░░░░░░ though tom yeah go ░░░░░░░░ I know I say ░░░░░░░░ have many critics many ░░░░░░░░ in America I know ░░░░░░░░ s what I want ░░░░░░░░ ask you you you ░░░░░░░░ China look I I ░░░░░░░░ m simply looking out ░░░░░░░░ my kids what is ░░░░░░░░ to be the healthiest ░░░░░░░░ for my girls to ░░░░░░░░ up in is it ░░░░░░░░ world where China and ░░░░░░░░ are in antagonism uh ░░░░░░░░ it a world where ░░░░░░░░ and America are building ░░░░░░░░ where possible I respect ░░░░░░░░ for that it takes ░░░░░░░░ lot of courage enormous ░░░░░░░░ of courage in fact ░░░░░░░░ other thing is you ░░░░░░░░ there are people saying ░░░░░░░░ about China in the ░░░░░░░░ States I would assume ░░░░░░░░ I m trying to ░░░░░░░░ out why people are ░░░░░░░░ to do it exaggerate ░░░░░░░░ sometimes about what China ░░░░░░░░ like you know one ░░░░░░░░ needs kind of momentum ░░░░░░░░ move forward that s ░░░░░░░░ for China that s ░░░░░░░░ true for America right ░░░░░░░░ but is it fair ░░░░░░░░ use China to fear ░░░░░░░░ out of their complacency ░░░░░░░░ s a very good ░░░░░░░░ because I m guilty ░░░░░░░░ that um I I ░░░░░░░░ use China not in ░░░░░░░░ um in any kind ░░░░░░░░ racist way but I ░░░░░░░░ say to Americans the ░░░░░░░░ when I am in ░░░░░░░░ it takes me four ░░░░░░░░ and 11 minutes to ░░░░░░░░ the bullet train from ░░░░░░░░ to Beijing yeah when ░░░░░░░░ m in America it ░░░░░░░░ me 19 hours and ░░░░░░░░ minutes to take our ░░░░░░░░ train from New York ░░░░░░░░ Chicago and it s ░░░░░░░░ and what I am ░░░░░░░░ I where I use ░░░░░░░░ as a threat not ░░░░░░░░ that China is going ░░░░░░░░ come over here and ░░░░░░░░ your you know city ░░░░░░░░ whatever and impose chinese ░░░░░░░░ what I m trying ░░░░░░░░ tell Americans is that ░░░░░░░░ have become in many ░░░░░░░░ fat dumb and lazy ░░░░░░░░ that we um uh ░░░░░░░░ now living in a ░░░░░░░░ world where um the ░░░░░░░░ between the energy and ░░░░░░░░ of a country like ░░░░░░░░ and and energy and ░░░░░░░░ of America will really ░░░░░░░░ to matter there s ░░░░░░░░ reason you know we ░░░░░░░░ talking before the show ░░░░░░░░ why am I writing ░░░░░░░░ America I m not ░░░░░░░░ about China I m ░░░░░░░░ thinking about chat I ░░░░░░░░ thinking right now about ░░░░░░░░ own country and my ░░░░░░░░ I m not saying ░░░░░░░░ for your audience to ░░░░░░░░ know to make them ░░░░░░░░ good I m saying ░░░░░░░░ to make me feel ░░░░░░░░ my country s not ░░░░░░░░ our democracy isn t ░░░░░░░░ the way it needs ░░░░░░░░ and that s my ░░░░░░░░ that s my biggest ░░░░░░░░ right now there are ░░░░░░░░ many people in America ░░░░░░░░ you want to know ░░░░░░░░ s new if you ░░░░░░░░ tom what s the ░░░░░░░░ thing in America that ░░░░░░░░ you it said you ░░░░░░░░ get really rich now ░░░░░░░░ polarizing people and presenting ░░░░░░░░ and that is really ░░░░░░░░ us has whatever is ░░░░░░░░ on in China it ░░░░░░░░ you know this is ░░░░░░░░ is my concern right ░░░░░░░░ and I guess there ░░░░░░░░ one important challenge about ░░░░░░░░ rules now with a ░░░░░░░░ world the rules will ░░░░░░░░ redesigned or adjusted the ░░░░░░░░ is who designed the ░░░░░░░░ who adjust the rules ░░░░░░░░ you look at the ░░░░░░░░ of the world what ░░░░░░░░ know ideas don t ░░░░░░░░ win good ideas don ░░░░░░░░ just win or bad ░░░░░░░░ don t just win ░░░░░░░░ s it depends on ░░░░░░░░ okay ideas need power ░░░░░░░░ spread and what I ░░░░░░░░ I think is going ░░░░░░░░ happen though is that ░░░░░░░░ re going to enter ░░░░░░░░ kind of two rule ░░░░░░░░ okay that is for ░░░░░░░░ most part after World ░░░░░░░░ II if we just ░░░░░░░░ trade for example well ░░░░░░░░ rules of trade were ░░░░░░░░ much set you know ░░░░░░░░ the bretton woods you ░░░░░░░░ agreements and those agreements ░░░░░░░░ really set largely by ░░░░░░░░ and it s it ░░░░░░░░ what it thought was ░░░░░░░░ and what was thought ░░░░░░░░ in its interest and ░░░░░░░░ uh I see a ░░░░░░░░ now developing where there ░░░░░░░░ going to be a ░░░░░░░░ of chinese rural world ░░░░░░░░ terms of technology and ░░░░░░░░ America rural world in ░░░░░░░░ at least of technology ░░░░░░░░ if not other things ░░░░░░░░ we re gonna have ░░░░░░░░ find a way for ░░░░░░░░ two worlds to coexist ░░░░░░░░ to overlap to integrate ░░░░░░░░ there s no question ░░░░░░░░ that America is not ░░░░░░░░ submit to China s ░░░░░░░░ on things China is ░░░░░░░░ enough not to submit ░░░░░░░░ America s rules on ░░░░░░░░ and therefore most likely ░░░░░░░░ re going to go ░░░░░░░░ a world defined by ░░░░░░░░ kind of chinese rule ░░░░░░░░ and an American rule ░░░░░░░░ countries are going to ░░░░░░░░ to choose between the ░░░░░░░░ to some degree and ░░░░░░░░ some degree we re ░░░░░░░░ to have to find ░░░░░░░░ way to make them ░░░░░░░░ together my final question ░░░░░░░░ you tom um I ░░░░░░░░ worried not because of ░░░░░░░░ previous questions I asked ░░░░░░░░ that those are already ░░░░░░░░ enough but because as ░░░░░░░░ journalist the limits of ░░░░░░░░ as a result of ░░░░░░░░ pandemic has been tremendous ░░░░░░░░ need to know the ░░░░░░░░ in order to judge ░░░░░░░░ the world is and ░░░░░░░░ able to report it ░░░░░░░░ the right proportion to ░░░░░░░░ audience how are you ░░░░░░░░ those problems particularly at ░░░░░░░░ time when things are ░░░░░░░░ so fast how are ░░░░░░░░ going to put our ░░░░░░░░ on the right thing ░░░░░░░░ the right post knowing ░░░░░░░░ right reason well way ░░░░░░░░ you just hit on ░░░░░░░░ an important point you ░░░░░░░░ um I ve always ░░░░░░░░ a motto as a ░░░░░░░░ if you don t ░░░░░░░░ you don t know ░░░░░░░░ know you and I ░░░░░░░░ old friends so we ░░░░░░░░ have a conversation and ░░░░░░░░ s almost like we ░░░░░░░░ saw each other yesterday ░░░░░░░░ we can pick up ░░░░░░░░ we left off but ░░░░░░░░ it s not like ░░░░░░░░ able to sit down ░░░░░░░░ have an interview and ░░░░░░░░ I get to walk ░░░░░░░░ streets of Beijing and ░░░░░░░░ people stop me they ░░░░░░░░ things to me I ░░░░░░░░ things so so I ░░░░░░░░ really really miss that ░░░░░░░░ look we have real ░░░░░░░░ we really disagree fundamentally ░░░░░░░░ issues and I ve ░░░░░░░░ ve talked about them ░░░░░░░░ but at the same ░░░░░░░░ um there there s ░░░░░░░░ so much we re ░░░░░░░░ by way of nuance ░░░░░░░░ uh I can t ░░░░░░░░ for this pandemic to ░░░░░░░░ over I hope one ░░░░░░░░ the first things that ░░░░░░░░ is that China lifts ░░░░░░░░ restrictions on foreign journalists ░░░░░░░░ we lift our restrictions ░░░░░░░░ chinese journalists we maybe ░░░░░░░░ over a little bit ░░░░░░░░ no good no good ░░░░░░░░ will come from us ░░░░░░░░ uh having the reporting ░░░░░░░░ each other s countries ░░░░░░░░ there are things that ░░░░░░░░ will write in the ░░░░░░░░ York Times that will ░░░░░░░░ upset you the things ░░░░░░░░ will write that will ░░░░░░░░ upset us but in ░░░░░░░░ all of that there ░░░░░░░░ be a lot more ░░░░░░░░ a lot more contact ░░░░░░░░ lot more understanding um ░░░░░░░░ want as many chinese ░░░░░░░░ in our universities as ░░░░░░░░ can possibly fit I ░░░░░░░░ we had almost 350 ░░░░░░░░ 000 I d like ░░░░░░░░ double it I d ░░░░░░░░ to double it and ░░░░░░░░ d like all of ░░░░░░░░ to stay and become ░░░░░░░░ and employees and inventors ░░░░░░░░ innovators here and and ░░░░░░░░ their energy but we ░░░░░░░░ got to find a ░░░░░░░░ to get back to ░░░░░░░░ I know that s ░░░░░░░░ going to be easy ░░░░░░░░ m a kind of ░░░░░░░░ for that previous era ░░░░░░░░ of greater integration I ░░░░░░░░ we re headed for ░░░░░░░░ choppier period now but ░░░░░░░░ need to find a ░░░░░░░░ to limit it and ░░░░░░░░ uh that s my ░░░░░░░░ tom friedman as always ░░░░░░░░ a pleasure pleasure was ░░░░░░░░ mine way thank you ░░░░░░░░ much thank you so much