RUSH TRANSCRIPT That race ░░░░░░░░ play a role in ░░░░░░░░ gets justice and who ░░░░░░░░ to prison Joining me ░░░░░░░░ is Katie Phang trial ░░░░░░░░ and MSNBC legal contributor ░░░░░░░░ mark klaxton retired NYPD ░░░░░░░░ and director of the ░░░░░░░░ law enforcement alliance I ░░░░░░░░ going to ask both ░░░░░░░░ you this question but ░░░░░░░░ m going to start ░░░░░░░░ you mark There are ░░░░░░░░ lot of cases and ░░░░░░░░ have covered a lot ░░░░░░░░ Black Lives Matter cases ░░░░░░░░ many for my psychological ░░░░░░░░ but there are some ░░░░░░░░ which you look at ░░░░░░░░ case and you think ░░░░░░░░ s an easy conviction ░░░░░░░░ Scott is one of ░░░░░░░░ Eric Garner is one ░░░░░░░░ them In the Walter ░░░░░░░░ case a video emerged ░░░░░░░░ a bystander showing the ░░░░░░░░ shooting Walter Scott in ░░░░░░░░ back and literally dropping ░░░░░░░░ taser to frame him ░░░░░░░░ his own death Shot ░░░░░░░░ in the back as ░░░░░░░░ s running away Clear ░░░░░░░░ jury hung The case ░░░░░░░░ Eric Garner the first ░░░░░░░░ in which we heard ░░░░░░░░ can t breathe at ░░░░░░░░ in the modern era ░░░░░░░░ s on the ground ░░░░░░░░ s struggling police officers ░░░░░░░░ choking him He is ░░░░░░░░ no the officer is ░░░░░░░░ in in that case ░░░░░░░░ well Eric Garner s ░░░░░░░░ was in court today ░░░░░░░░ this and I m ░░░░░░░░ it s painful for ░░░░░░░░ to be there and ░░░░░░░░ this but can you ░░░░░░░░ walk us through this ░░░░░░░░ the use of force ░░░░░░░░ allows police to use ░░░░░░░░ kinds of force up ░░░░░░░░ killing someone Why is ░░░░░░░░ so hard to see ░░░░░░░░ in cases that look ░░░░░░░░ to the layperson to ░░░░░░░░ a cop The painful ░░░░░░░░ is that the and ░░░░░░░░ shows us this constantly ░░░░░░░░ and time again There ░░░░░░░░ no simple or straightforward ░░░░░░░░ killing case when it ░░░░░░░░ black people And it ░░░░░░░░ is a matter of ░░░░░░░░ and the perceptions of ░░░░░░░░ the bias implicit in ░░░░░░░░ enforcement the toxic police ░░░░░░░░ itself and the perceptions ░░░░░░░░ those people who serve ░░░░░░░░ our jurors I think ░░░░░░░░ makes this case in ░░░░░░░░ unusual at least thus ░░░░░░░░ and let me be ░░░░░░░░ about something I had ░░░░░░░░ delusions of grandeur in ░░░░░░░░ to this particular case ░░░░░░░░ m not confident that ░░░░░░░░ case is a slam ░░░░░░░░ even with the overwhelming ░░░░░░░░ but what is important ░░░░░░░░ least is the discussion ░░░░░░░░ the critical decision making ░░░░░░░░ that police engage in ░░░░░░░░ seems as if when ░░░░░░░░ is a black or ░░░░░░░░ person involved all of ░░░░░░░░ sudden the decision making ░░░░░░░░ goes awry and that ░░░░░░░░ to these tragedies and ░░░░░░░░ that we have experienced ░░░░░░░░ history shows us it ░░░░░░░░ about race It s ░░░░░░░░ to get away from ░░░░░░░░ I mean this is ░░░░░░░░ producers there s a ░░░░░░░░ about a St Louis ░░░░░░░░ officer who was beaten ░░░░░░░░ by his own colleagues ░░░░░░░░ he was off duty ░░░░░░░░ a Black Lives Matter ░░░░░░░░ They thought he was ░░░░░░░░ Black Lives Matter protester ░░░░░░░░ him up he ended ░░░░░░░░ having to get surgery ░░░░░░░░ convictions White officers beat ░░░░░░░░ black cop Nothing happened ░░░░░░░░ them and that s ░░░░░░░░ the way it seems ░░░░░░░░ always go Katie And ░░░░░░░░ feel like one of ░░░░░░░░ reasons is police get ░░░░░░░░ lot of leeway from ░░░░░░░░ who want to believe ░░░░░░░░ police particularly juries if ░░░░░░░░ are lots of white ░░░░░░░░ on the jury let ░░░░░░░░ just be blunt who ░░░░░░░░ the cops But also ░░░░░░░░ find out so much ░░░░░░░░ about the dead black ░░░░░░░░ than you ever do ░░░░░░░░ the cops In this ░░░░░░░░ Derek chauvin had 17 ░░░░░░░░ against him for excessive ░░░░░░░░ 17 of them All ░░░░░░░░ one of them ended ░░░░░░░░ no disciplinary actions This ░░░░░░░░ only served for 19 ░░░░░░░░ That means all but ░░░░░░░░ one excessive force complaint ░░░░░░░░ every year he was ░░░░░░░░ cop That s not ░░░░░░░░ in but George Floyd ░░░░░░░░ using drugs that gets ░░░░░░░░ come in Please explain ░░░░░░░░ that can happen Well ░░░░░░░░ s the legal double ░░░░░░░░ because the case law ░░░░░░░░ it to happen And ░░░░░░░░ the reason why we ░░░░░░░░ not hearing about Derek ░░░░░░░░ s past is that ░░░░░░░░ s a concern that ░░░░░░░░ jury will race to ░░░░░░░░ and basically convict him ░░░░░░░░ his quote prior bad ░░░░░░░░ And so the reason ░░░░░░░░ the jury s hearing ░░░░░░░░ George Floyd s drug ░░░░░░░░ and his history of ░░░░░░░░ usage is it is ░░░░░░░░ defense that is being ░░░░░░░░ by Derek chauvin Doesn ░░░░░░░░ seem to make sense ░░░░░░░░ it s exactly what ░░░░░░░░ And in terms of ░░░░░░░░ legal burden of proof ░░░░░░░░ a criminal case it ░░░░░░░░ beyond and to the ░░░░░░░░ of every reasonable doubt ░░░░░░░░ in and of itself ░░░░░░░░ understandably so because somebody ░░░░░░░░ liberty is at stake ░░░░░░░░ criminal burden of proof ░░░░░░░░ higher than in a ░░░░░░░░ case But what we ░░░░░░░░ finding joy is that ░░░░░░░░ reasons why cops get ░░░░░░░░ leeway is because it ░░░░░░░░ a reasonable person standard ░░░░░░░░ is applied meaning is ░░░░░░░░ cop acting reasonably in ░░░░░░░░ circumstances provided But in ░░░░░░░░ George Floyd case as ░░░░░░░░ ve heard through the ░░░░░░░░ of police experts as ░░░░░░░░ as yesterday through the ░░░░░░░░ of police himself for ░░░░░░░░ Minneapolis police department the ░░░░░░░░ the complete disregard and ░░░░░░░░ unauthorized use of neck ░░░░░░░░ could be exactly what ░░░░░░░░ prosecution needs to be ░░░░░░░░ to get Derek chauvin ░░░░░░░░ Why Because he didn ░░░░░░░░ act reasonably The use ░░░░░░░░ force matrix allows like ░░░░░░░░ said cops to be ░░░░░░░░ to go as far ░░░░░░░░ lethal force when they ░░░░░░░░ doing their job But ░░░░░░░░ is a constant fluid ░░░░░░░░ and chauvin s defense ░░░░░░░░ on saying that that ░░░░░░░░ exactly what allowed chauvin ░░░░░░░░ be able to do ░░░░░░░░ That the crowd was ░░░░░░░░ unruly that they were ░░░░░░░░ and menacing the police ░░░░░░░░ But the reality is ░░░░░░░░ cannot substitute the welfare ░░░░░░░░ people on the street ░░░░░░░░ who your arrestee is ░░░░░░░░ cannot do that With ░░░░░░░░ Floyd saying I can ░░░░░░░░ breathe and them being ░░░░░░░░ for almost five minutes ░░░░░░░░ chauvin deviated from the ░░░░░░░░ of care that professional ░░░░░░░░ have to apply and ░░░░░░░░ s the reason why ░░░░░░░░ a reasonable doubt he ░░░░░░░░ be convicted for these ░░░░░░░░ And I should note ░░░░░░░░ the complaint were not ░░░░░░░░ for excessive force They ░░░░░░░░ were 17 complaints in ░░░░░░░░ 19 year history Let ░░░░░░░░ show the crowd just ░░░░░░░░ little bit Because this ░░░░░░░░ been a big part ░░░░░░░░ the defense case They ░░░░░░░░ trying to show the ░░░░░░░░ This is cut five ░░░░░░░░ is them yelling at ░░░░░░░░ police while this is ░░░░░░░░ Here they are There ░░░░░░░░ a still and there ░░░░░░░░ also five which is ░░░░░░░░ actual crowd moving Here ░░░░░░░░ are Bro he was ░░░░░░░░ moving when I walked ░░░░░░░░ Oh So y all ░░░░░░░░ going to wait for ░░░░░░░░ ambulance Does he have ░░░░░░░░ pulse I m busy ░░░░░░░░ to deal with you ░░░░░░░░ right now Bro bleep ░░░░░░░░ There s three of ░░░░░░░░ guys You guys should ░░░░░░░░ able to Bleep that ░░░░░░░░ your bleep Job right ░░░░░░░░ also just want to ░░░░░░░░ for you marq number ░░░░░░░░ officer Thao who you ░░░░░░░░ standing there never called ░░░░░░░░ back up If the ░░░░░░░░ was so threatening he ░░░░░░░░ t call for back ░░░░░░░░ Also one of the ░░░░░░░░ ended up leaving and ░░░░░░░░ in an ambulance with ░░░░░░░░ Floyd to the hospital ░░░░░░░░ they were down to ░░░░░░░░ officers and Derek chauvin ░░░░░░░░ you look at his ░░░░░░░░ looked perfectly calm and ░░░░░░░░ as he s choking ░░░░░░░░ man to death But ░░░░░░░░ want to come to ░░░░░░░░ on another thing because ░░░░░░░░ brought this up a ░░░░░░░░ bit This whole thing ░░░░░░░░ excited delirium we re ░░░░░░░░ seeing the defense try ░░░░░░░░ essentially make it that ░░░░░░░░ Floyd basically died of ░░░░░░░░ drug overdose that had ░░░░░░░░ to do with Derek ░░░░░░░░ This whole excited delirium ░░░░░░░░ come up before a ░░░░░░░░ in The New York ░░░░░░░░ says according to a ░░░░░░░░ the term excited delirium ░░░░░░░░ disproportionately applied to black ░░░░░░░░ and was first used ░░░░░░░░ in 1985 to explain ░░░░░░░░ series of sudden deaths ░░░░░░░░ cocaine users primarily while ░░░░░░░░ police custody This notion ░░░░░░░░ particularly black men have ░░░░░░░░ human strength and any ░░░░░░░░ they re taking means ░░░░░░░░ can rise from the ░░░░░░░░ basically which is what ░░░░░░░░ have to believe to ░░░░░░░░ Derek chauvin s defense ░░░░░░░░ still attack police officers ░░░░░░░░ they re always a ░░░░░░░░ that as long as ░░░░░░░░ s a black man ░░░░░░░░ re a threat even ░░░░░░░░ death Your thoughts It ░░░░░░░░ part of the you ░░░░░░░░ it s the racializing ░░░░░░░░ individuals It s creating ░░░░░░░░ boogeyman It s creating ░░░░░░░░ superhuman strength from all ░░░░░░░░ people It s increasing ░░░░░░░░ threat level that is ░░░░░░░░ inherent in being black ░░░░░░░░ that s part of ░░░░░░░░ problem The perception of ░░░░░░░░ people by law enforcement ░░░░░░░░ criminal justice system as ░░░░░░░░ whole creates these environments ░░░░░░░░ you know our lives ░░░░░░░░ in jeopardy on a ░░░░░░░░ regular basis than anyone ░░░░░░░░ and it is strictly ░░░░░░░░ race And let s ░░░░░░░░ clear about something And ░░░░░░░░ s come out during ░░░░░░░░ trial It s important ░░░░░░░░ note that police officers ░░░░░░░░ the nation across the ░░░░░░░░ are taught to use ░░░░░░░░ least amount of force ░░░░░░░░ to accomplish the goal ░░░░░░░░ is it Everything else ░░░░░░░░ extra and additional tactics ░░░░░░░░ all of this stuff ░░░░░░░░ extra and additional The ░░░░░░░░ amount of force in ░░░░░░░░ to accomplish the goal ░░░░░░░░ apparently the goal for ░░░░░░░░ Chauvin was killing George ░░░░░░░░ It is very hard ░░░░░░░░ watch the video but ░░░░░░░░ me the creepiest thing ░░░░░░░░ to watch chauvin s ░░░░░░░░ He looks unbothered While ░░░░░░░░ are yelling at him ░░░░░░░░ re killing him It ░░░░░░░░ police Yeah It is ░░░░░░░░ you can actually see ░░░░░░░░ you can actually see ░░░░░░░░ staring and glaring at ░░░░░░░░ witnesses there and imagining ░░░░░░░░ m assuming just based ░░░░░░░░ his police form just ░░░░░░░░ those witnesses that he ░░░░░░░░ glaring at under his ░░░░░░░░ That s what I ░░░░░░░░ from that video It ░░░░░░░░ scary to watch Thank ░░░░░░░░ both Katie Phang marq ░░░░░░░░ thank you for being ░░░░░░░░