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Hayden: We ‘Are More Secure if It’s Much More Difficult for Anyone to Break the Encryption on Our IPhones’



Morning Joe

Name: Morning Joe


Joe Scarborough

Name: Joe Scarborough

Employment: MSNBC

Position: Host, Author

, Michael Hayden

Name: Michael Hayden

Employment: National Security Agency

Position: Former Director

, Nicolle Wallace

Name: Nicolle Wallace

Employment: Self-employed

Position: Author, Political analyst

Not online media
BRZEZINSKI: “I want to ask you about Apple versus the FBI, although this conversation is fascinating. This is why we had you in because you are trending toward the government. This is all pertaining to the phone of one of the San Bernardino shooters.”
HYDEN: “Yes.”
BRZEZINSKI: “And it’s a little bit more complicated than whether they should just hand it over or not.”
HYDEN: “It is. For the theme of the book which is this is hard. The two sides are not defined by dark and light. Tim cook and apple in the general proposition that we should not compel him to build back doors into all of his devices and almost unassailable. I don’t know how the government does that. We’re going to legislate against technology today. See how that works.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Phone sitting right there. What do you do?”
HYDEN: “This is different. This is a specific case. They’re being asked to suppress one aspect of the operating system so the government can take a shot at decryption. I agree with Tim cook but the burden of proof is on Tim to prove to me, the public, if he wants to stop it, he has to prove that this, which I think is very narrow and limited, ultimately leads to that. I am unconvinced. Doesn’t help that the local just U.S. Attorney here. Mr. Vance, immediately says, I have another roomful of things that I’m going to be right behind the San Bernardino guys because that trends the discussion then into the universal approach rather than this one-off.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Isn’t it like torture? How much can you get out of it? What’s it worth?”
HYDEN: “There are a lot of sub-arguments. How much more can be in there? How much more do you need to know?”
BRZEZINSKI: “There could be a lot.”
HYDEN: “Absolutely. Mika —“
BRZEZINSKI: “Talking about Vance having phones in New York City.”
HYDEN: “But then you’re starting to trend in the direction — Tim cook cannot have the position, all right, that I will refuse to give law enforcement any information under any circumstances. That’s a loser. An equally losing position is our government demanding that American industry embed in their products a back door. I tell you why. I ran the NSA too besides the CIA. When somebody put a back door into anything for any purpose, no matter how noble, my simple response was thank you Jesus.”
HYDEN: “Because we’re going to come — we’re going to exploit that back door. There are a lot of talented security services around. Don’t think of this as just security and privacy. This is security and security. Because you — you, me, are more secure if it’s much more difficult for anyone to break the encryption on our iPhones.”
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