Gates on the ‘Deep State’: Conspiracies Can’t Succeed in the D.C. Because Everybody Leaks
CHUCK TODD: When you hear the words “deep state,” is there — does it exist? I mean, there is this sense that there is this cabal of bureaucrats that have been there forever. Unelected people. I guess you’re right, I mean, people would say you’ve been unelected so you must be the, the chief.
ROBERT GATES: So I, as the director and deputy director of C.I.A., let’s just say I was exposed to more than a few conspiracy theories over the years.
CHUCK TODD: Right.
ROBERT GATES: And the one reason I always told people, “Conspiracies would never — could never succeed in Washington,” is because everybody in this town leaks. I mean, the idea that you could have some kind of a cabal to organize or control the government in some way and have it not leak or somebody go sell the story to a magazine or to a book publisher it just doesn’t comport with reality.
CHUCK TODD: But it really does seem to be seeping into the mainstream. This was Rush Limbaugh this week. Listen to this.
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RUSH LIMBAUGH: What if the, quote-on-quote, intelligence community misrepresented on purpose the degree to which Hussein had WMDs, because I’ll tell you it was a very, very embarrassing moment.
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CHUCK TODD: So if I get this right, the conspiracy now, it’s not just to up-end President Trump, but it goes all the way back to WMDs. Rush Limbaugh has a lot of influence over a lot of, of conservatives who are both elected or activists.
ROBERT GATES: Well, the reality is, the intelligence folks do get it wrong sometimes. And they did get it wrong with weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The interesting thing that people don’t pay much attention to is that, every other intelligence service in the world got it wrong also.
CHUCK TODD: One final thing on this issue. A former acting C.I.A. director, John McLaughlin talked about sort of a dilemma that he says people like yourself who have been sort of veterans of the national security community, bipartisan veterans or nonpartisan veterans. He said this: “For most of us throughout our careers, we maintained a neutrality. But if you have a genuine conviction that the country is endangered, you can’t help but speak out about it. No one from the intelligence community who speaks out about Trump does it with joy or satisfaction. It’s against the grain of the culture we’ve grown up with.” Do you feel that dilemma?
ROBERT GATES: I think that people who have been in these positions, and I would include retired military, need to be very careful in terms of political commentary because you can be looked upon as representing that institution, not just yourself. So I think, I think people who have occupied senior positions in the intelligence community, in the military and others, need to be very cautious about getting involved in the political process.
