#BlackLivesMatter: Mall of America Pushes ‘Anti-Black Racism, White Supremacy’
COSTELLO: “Thank you so much for being with me. As I just mentioned, Black Lives Matters leaders have vowed to protest at the Mall of America despite any legal action. With me now is Miski Noor, an organizer for Black Lives Mater in Minneapolis. Welcome.”
NOOR: “Hi.”
COSTELLO: “Hi. So Miski, Black Lives Matter put out a statement calling the Mall of America steps outrageous and totalitarian. Isn't the mall just trying to protect business owners from losing money at the busiest time of the year?”
NOOR: “No, not in this case. There are many different avenues that the mall could pursue to try to limit our freedom of speech, and to force us to post certain messages to the media on social media and while speaking to the media is a complete overreach and is unconstitutional in our opinion.”
COSTELLO: “OK, explain that for me. So Mall of America wants Black Lives Matters to take posts off of social media promoting this protest tomorrow. Is that what you're talking about?”
NOOR: “Yes, they are -- they want us to specifically send a message, campaign for them, to tell people to not go to the mall in support of Black Lives Matter Minneapolis. And we're simply not going to do that. If they wanted to just keep us off their property, they're right. The State of Minnesota in Wicklund said that it is private property. We view that differently obviously. So they could essentially just give us trespassing charges if they really wanted to, to just keep us off their property if that was case. The fact that they're going for a civil suit and pursuing all this action is yet another example of them trying to persecute peaceful protesters by bringing a civil action against us.”
COSTELLO: “Well, I just want to make it clear for our viewers. So whatever the judge's decision, you guys still plan to show up at the Mall of America to protest.”
NOOR: “Yes. We are still going to be showing up. You know, we showed up last year and the court sided with us and the actions that we took for black lives. So we have a different view. The Mall of America receives billions of from the State of Minnesota to -- like in tax breaks and so on and so forth to function. They take plenty of public money so we view it as a public space.”
COSTELLO: “Well, here's the thing. Last year, when you guys protested, there were arrests, stores were shut down to protect shoppers and their children. Children were riding the merry-go-rounds and the roller coasters; they became fearful. That doesn't sound like a peaceful protest. It sounds like intimidation.”
NOOR: “Right, so I was at the mall last year and I didn't see any of that intimidation. There were families, there were children who are part of the protest. Honestly, a lot of the fear came from the overreaction of the mall of America when they called in several police forces from the surrounding suburbs, where police showed up in riot gear and the police blocked store entrances.”
COSTELLO: “But I'm looking at the picture there. That looks like you are blocking an entire hallway in the Mall of America. That would be kind of intimidating, don't you think? Or am I reading this wrong?”
NOOR: “Well, yes, it was in the rotunda area there. People were singing Christmas carols. I mean, it was peaceful. Nobody got hurt. The fact that nobody got hurt, no property was damaged, that is a prime example of our commitment to nonviolence. Because that could have gone -- Susan is completely right. That could have gone very, very badly and it didn't. And it is because of Black Lives Matter's commitment to nonviolence.”
COSTELLO: “But here's the thing, you heard Susan Gaertner. She said that business owners lost money. Her daughter, who support yours cause, lost money. Why should they lose money for this? Why can't you guys just protest outside the mall on a public space?”
NOOR: “Well, because we're losing lives. People are literally being killed. And yet again that is a perfect example, that line of thinking that Susan has, that the Mall of America has, that money is more important than people. It is not. And that is exactly what we're saying by returning to the Mall –“
COSTELLO: “I don't -- in fairness to Susan I don't think that's what she was saying. She wasn't saying that money is more -- she's just saying that you're affecting people's livelihoods at a time when people need the money, on one of the biggest shopping days of the year. Why not just move your protest outside? People can see you're protesting as they pull into the parliament by the parking lot by the thousands. What's wrong with that?”
NOOR: “Well, it also brings -- Carol, it also brings to mind the idea that Martin Luther King, Jr., even put out there, that Dr. King said, about people who agree with your message but not with your tactics. We don't need anybody to agree with our tactics, right? We're disrupting business as usual. That is the whole idea. We're not going to stand in a corner and protest, because nobody pays attention to that. We are going disrupt your life. You are going to know that business is usual in America and the world is not going to continue while black people -- unarmed black people -- are literally being shot and killed by law enforcement in the street every day. And the mall is -- I know people get caught up in this idea about the mall not being the right venue, but the mall itself is this coliseum of capitalism. The mall practices -- the mall participates in this anti-black racism and white supremacy. The Mall of America has been investigated –“
COSTELLO: “But wait.”
NOOR: “-- by the Minnesota Department of Human Rights for violations for the way they treat people of color in the mall. So these same issues that we're seeing in police departments are manifesting in the mall, and people of color and black people are being affected negatively because of the way the mall decides to act. So that is why they are an appropriate target.”
COSTELLO: “All right, I have to leave it there. Miski Noor, thank you for being with me this morning.”
NOOR: “Thank you. I appreciate it.”
COSTELLO: “You're welcome.”
