Tucker Grills Cornel West on Democratic Socialism: ‘What Would a Country Without Prisons Look Like?’
RUSH EXCERPT:
CARLSON: "Yes, it is. To give us a sense of what democratic socialism is, can you point to an example that works? Venezuela seems like an exact of democratic socialism. If so does it work?"
WEST: "I don’t think that democratic socialism as an ideal has been able to embodied in a larger social context. There are different forms of it. Some are bad, some are medium, some are better. The fundamental commitment is to the dignity of ordinary people and make sure they live lives of decency. It’s not an-ism. It’s about decency and fairness and the accountability of the powerful. Women in household, guys and trans and black people and immigrants. How do we ensure they are treated differently and the powerful don’t exploit them?"
CARLSON: "If that’s what democratic socialism is, then I am basically on board. I think middle-class people ought to have dignity and the current systems make that difficult."
WEST: "That’s why Albertine stein and Helen Keller and baker. We can go on and on. They are all democratic socialists."
CARLSON: "I understand. Has it struck you as interesting it’s never worked anywhere? The question is not what are our goals? Our goals are the same. How do we get there is the question? What happened in Venezuela? They don’t have toilet paper. It’s less equal than ever."
WEST: "Part of the their problem is, brother, any times there were attempts of ordinary people to engage in self-determination, they can get get crushed. The U.S. Policies have been very hard. They get crushed or coerced and they end up responding to that kind of authority treatment. We never had a chance to pull it off. It’s only a movement so far. It’s an attempt to resist the greed and the racism and the homophobia. The ways humity is violated rather than affirmed."
CARLSON: "The dsa, one of the biggest in the country. They are against borders, profits and prisons. What would a country without prisons look like. What would you do with murderers or rapists with no prisons?"
WEST: "They are talking about the kinds of prisons we have at the present. If you have site of rehabilitation and education where transformation can take place, you and I ourselves, we are Christians, right? We believe all human beings are not just made in the image of god but they can be transformed with the right kind of intervention takes place. That’s what people need in the socialist movement talking about the elimination of the kind of prisonses in place."
